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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience



Now how do we make sense of that, Carol?
:-)
mike

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 8:37 PM, <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:

> No Andy, "meaning" is principally a noun of long standing, ossified. There
> are loads of examples of noun/verb pairs.
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> Sender: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:39:57
> To: <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture,
>         Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
>
> Yes, the use of "Thought" in lieu of "Thinking" and "Language" instead
> of "Speaking" is famous and widely recognised, but I have found that
> while noting this, people often stick to "meaning" as the attribute of a
> symbol rather than the gerund of an action verb.
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
> > Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and Language"
> > vs "Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
> > and Dilthey......
> >
> > Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
> > an interesting exercise!
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >
> >     Oh I see!
> >     It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list fundamental
> >     human actions/relations which provide the foundation for language,
> >     along with travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial
> >     position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as
> >     indicative of the nature of life in the land of the free. So in
> >     this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
> >     "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's
> >     barrel in this context.
> >
> >     And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a process
> >     verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the
> >     English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse direction
> >     in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like "impact")
> >     being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in
> >     which James and Dewey were philosophising.
> >
> >     Andy
> >
> >     mike cole wrote:
> >
> >         A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a wooden or
> >         metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over
> >         significant periods of a human life span.
> >
> >         Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are groping the
> >         environment with bodies, the environment is groping us. And
> >         given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its a process
> >         occurring over
> >
> >         time.
> >
> >         Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain,
> >         so to speak.
> >
> >         mike
> >
> >         On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden
> >         <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> >
> >             I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
> >             Andy
> >
> >             mike cole wrote:
> >
> >                 Those are both terrifically useful passages to think
> with,
> >                 Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really
> >         resonate to the
> >                 notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first
> >         passage, and
> >                 the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I think for
> the
> >                 latter that
> >                 barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way"
> >         /temporality/
> >                 is backgrounded.
> >
> >                 thanks!
> >                 mike
> >
> >
> >                 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
> >                 <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> >                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
> >
> >                     What about this one Larry?
> >
> >                            ‘Experience’ is what James called a
> >         double-barreled
> >                 word. Like
> >                            its congeners, life and history, it
> >         includes /what/
> >                 men do and
> >                            suffer, /what/ they strive for, love,
> >         believe and
> >                 endure, and
> >                            /how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways
> >         in which
> >                 they do and
> >                            suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe,
> >         imagine –
> >                 in short,
> >                            processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
> >                 ‘double-barreled’ in
> >                     that
> >                            it recognizes in its primary integrity no
> >         division
> >                 between act
> >                            and material, subject and object, but
> >         contains them
> >                 both in an
> >                            unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and ‘thought’, as
> >                 James says
> >                     in the
> >                            same connection, are single-barreled; they
> >         refer to
> >                 products
> >                            discriminated by reflection out of primary
> >                 experience (1929
> >                     PJD:
> >                            256-7).
> >
> >                     Andy
> >
> >
> >                     Larry Purss wrote:
> >
> >                         Mike,
> >
> >                         On page 12 of the  article on Dewey's
> >         notionotion of
> >                         experience the theme
> >                         of experience AS
> >                         "life overcomes and transforms factors of
> >         opposition to
> >                         achieve higher
> >                         significance. Harmony and equilibrium are the
> >         resullts
> >                 not of
> >                         mechanical
> >                         processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of
> >         tension.  The
> >                 rhythmic
> >                         ALTERNATION
> >                         within the live creature BETWEEN unity and
> >         disunity
> >                 becomes
> >                         CONSCIOUS in
> >                         humans.  Emotion signifies BREAKS in
> >         experience which
> >                 are then
> >                         resolved
> >                         through reflective action"
> >
> >                         I thought this may be a way in to *start* the
> >                 conversational
> >                         dialogue  with
> >                         perezhivanie.
> >
> >                         Larry
> >
> >                         On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
> >                         <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
> >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
> >
> >                 wrote:
> >
> >                                              Michael, Mike:
> >                             One more fragment on the  definition of
> >         sentipensante:
> >
> >                             Sentipensante pedagogy offers a
> transformative
> >                 vision of
> >                             education that
> >                             emphasizes the harmonic, complementary
> >         relationship
> >                             between the sentir of
> >                             intuition and the pensar of intellect and
> >         scholarship;
> >                             between teaching and
> >                             learning; between formal knowledge and
> >         wisdom; and
> >                 between
> >                             Western and
> >                             non-Western ways of knowing.
> >
> >                             Seems to have some family resemblance to
> >         this theme of
> >                             experience
> >                             Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >                             On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Larry Purss
> >                             <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >
> >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> >
> >                                                        Mike,
> >                                 Thanks for this.
> >                                 Stanford Pub is a wonderful resource.
> >          I seem to
> >                                 download an author
> >                                 approximately once a month. For $10 you
> >                 support them
> >                                 and get the articles
> >                                 sent in a PDF format.
> >
> >                                 Michael , here is a link [in Spanish]
> >         to a youtube
> >                                 video of Orlando
> >                                 Fals-Borda discussing his understanding
> of
> >                 experience
> >                                 from the heart.
> >                                 If you have any articles in English
> >         which you can
> >                                 share, this seems to be
> >                                 exploring experience within "felt
> >         awareness".
> >                                 Seems to be a fascinating expansion of
> the
> >                                 understanding of experience.
> >
> >                                 Thanks, Michael and Mike
> >
> >                                 Larry
> >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo
> >
> >                                 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM, mike
> cole
> >                                 <lchcmike@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >
> >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> >          Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
> >                 a quick
> >                                     summary of Dewey on
> >                                     experience. Note that his ideas
> >         are considered
> >                                     unusual by the author.
> >                                     That
> >                                     Stanford pub seems very useful.
> >                                     mike
> >
> >
> >          http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp
> >
> >                                     On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
> >         Larry Purss
> >                                     <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >
> >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
> >
> >                                     wrote:
> >
> >
> >              Michael,
> >                                         I also found this site for
> Orlando
> >                 Fals Borda.
> >
> >         http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
> >                                         If it is off topic please ignore.
> >                 However, it
> >                                         is where my curiosity was
> >                                         called or invited.
> >
> >                                         Larry
> >
> >                                         On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM,
> >                 Glassman,
> >                                         Michael <
> >
> >                glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
> >                 <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> >         <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> >         <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
> >                  wrote:
> >                                                         Perhaps
> >         another avenue to
> >                                             explore might be Ortega y
> >         Gasset's
> >                 ideas on
> >                                             experience (which is
> >         probably in
> >                 some ways
> >                                             reflective of Dewey)
> >
> >                      which was
> >
> >                  appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
> >                 in the
> >                                             concept of vivencia -
> >
> >                      which is
> >
> >                  very compelling - and became an
> >                 important
> >                                             part of Fals-Borda's
> >
> >                      conception
> >
> >                  of Participatory Action Research.
> >                  This
> >                                             might then tie back to the
> >
> >                          earlier
> >
> >                        issue on PAR.
> >
> >                                             Michael
> >
> >          ________________________________________
> >                                             From:
> >         xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >
> >          <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> >         [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >
> >          <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>] on
> >
> >
> >                          behalf
> >
> >                        of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
> >                                             <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >
> >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >>>]
> >
> >                                             Sent: Monday, February 18,
> >         2013
> >                 2:28 PM
> >                                             To: Beth Ferholt
> >                                             Cc: Galina Zuckerman; John
> >                 Shotter; Boris
> >                                             Meshcheryakov; eXtended
> >
> >                      Mind,
> >
> >                  Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
> >                                             Alexander Asmolov
> >                                             Subject: Re: [xmca]
> >         Perezhivanie and
> >                                             Dewey's concept of experience
> >
> >                                             Thanks Beth--
> >
> >                                             I ask, firstly, because there
> >                 appear quite
> >                                             clear overlaps as you and
> >
> >                          Monica
> >
> >                        have been exploring.
> >
> >                                             Secondly, we have two
> >         submissions
> >                 to MCA
> >                                             on perezhivanie that are
> >
> >                      very
> >
> >                  focused on Russian authors. Over
> >                 and above
> >                                             competing
> >                                             exegeses of the ideas of
> >         Vygotsky,
> >                                             Puyzerei, etc., it seems
> >         important
> >
> >                          that
> >
> >                        we figure out ways to explore
> >                 different
> >                                             ways of thinking about the
> >
> >                          general
> >
> >                        category of "experience" that will be
> >                                             productive of new
> >         empirical and
> >                                             theoretical investigation.
> >
> >                                             mike
> >
> >                                             On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
> >         9:42 AM, Beth
> >                                             Ferholt
> >         <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
> >                 <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
> >                                             <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
> >         <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
> >
> >                 <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >                          wrote:
> >
> >                            Monica and I have just started
> >                 using
> >                                                 the two concepts in
> >
> >                            conjunction,
> >
> >              as
> >
> >                            we write about the relation
> >                 between
> >                                                 play and learning and
> >         Dewey's
> >
> >                            ideas
> >
> >                  on
> >
> >                                  the relation between art and
> >                 science
> >                                                 in Art and Experience.
> >          I am
> >
> >                            very
> >
> >                      interested in any ref. you
> >                 find as I
> >                                                 have found none yet. Can
> I
> >
> >                            ask why
> >
> >                  you
> >
> >                                  ask now? Beth
> >
> >
> >                                                 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013
> >         at 6:09
> >                 PM, mike
> >                                                 cole
> >         <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
> >
> >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >
> >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >                            wrote:
> >
> >                          Has anyone written on uses
> >                 of the
> >                                                     term perezhivanie
> >         as used
> >                 in the
> >                                                     cultural
> >                                                     historical
> >         tradition and
> >                 Dewey's
> >                                                     concept of
> experience?
> >
> >                                  references?
> >
> >                          mike
> >
> >          __________________________________________
> >                                                     _____
> >                                                     xmca mailing list
> >
> >         xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>
> >
> >          <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> >
> >
> >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >                                                 --
> >                                                 Beth Ferholt
> >                                                 Assistant Professor
> >                                                 School of Education
> >                                                 Brooklyn College, City
> >                 University of
> >                                                 New York
> >                                                 2900 Bedford Avenue
> >                                                 Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> >
> >                                                 Email:
> >                 bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
> >
> >          <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
> >
> >                                                 Phone: (718) 951-5205
> >                                                 Fax: (718) 951-4816
> >
> >
> >
> >         __________________________________________
> >                                             _____
> >                                             xmca mailing list
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>
> >
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
> >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >          __________________________________________
> >                                             _____
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>
> >
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
> >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >                          __________________________________________
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
> >         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >                __________________________________________
> >                                     _____
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
> >         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >                           __________________________________________
> >                         _____
> >                         xmca mailing list
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> >
> >                         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >                     --
> >
>  ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >                     *Andy Blunden*
> >                     Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >                 <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >
> >
> >                     Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> >                     http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> >
> >
> >                     __________________________________________
> >                     _____
> >                     xmca mailing list
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> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> >                     http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >             --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >             *Andy Blunden*
> >             Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >             Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> >             http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> >
> >             __________________________________________
> >             _____
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> >             xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >             http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> >     --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >     *Andy Blunden*
> >     Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <
> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >     Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> >     http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> >
> >     __________________________________________
> >     _____
> >     xmca mailing list
> >     xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >     http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
>
> __________________________________________
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>
> __________________________________________
> _____
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> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
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