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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
- To: carolmacdon@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
- Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
- From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 21:05:11 -0800
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Now how do we make sense of that, Carol?
:-)
mike
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 8:37 PM, <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
> No Andy, "meaning" is principally a noun of long standing, ossified. There
> are loads of examples of noun/verb pairs.
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> Sender: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:39:57
> To: <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
>
> Yes, the use of "Thought" in lieu of "Thinking" and "Language" instead
> of "Speaking" is famous and widely recognised, but I have found that
> while noting this, people often stick to "meaning" as the attribute of a
> symbol rather than the gerund of an action verb.
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
> > Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and Language"
> > vs "Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
> > and Dilthey......
> >
> > Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
> > an interesting exercise!
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >
> > Oh I see!
> > It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list fundamental
> > human actions/relations which provide the foundation for language,
> > along with travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial
> > position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as
> > indicative of the nature of life in the land of the free. So in
> > this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
> > "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's
> > barrel in this context.
> >
> > And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a process
> > verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the
> > English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse direction
> > in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like "impact")
> > being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in
> > which James and Dewey were philosophising.
> >
> > Andy
> >
> > mike cole wrote:
> >
> > A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a wooden or
> > metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over
> > significant periods of a human life span.
> >
> > Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are groping the
> > environment with bodies, the environment is groping us. And
> > given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its a process
> > occurring over
> >
> > time.
> >
> > Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain,
> > so to speak.
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden
> > <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> >
> > I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
> > Andy
> >
> > mike cole wrote:
> >
> > Those are both terrifically useful passages to think
> with,
> > Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really
> > resonate to the
> > notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first
> > passage, and
> > the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I think for
> the
> > latter that
> > barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way"
> > /temporality/
> > is backgrounded.
> >
> > thanks!
> > mike
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
> > <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
> >
> > What about this one Larry?
> >
> > ‘Experience’ is what James called a
> > double-barreled
> > word. Like
> > its congeners, life and history, it
> > includes /what/
> > men do and
> > suffer, /what/ they strive for, love,
> > believe and
> > endure, and
> > /how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways
> > in which
> > they do and
> > suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe,
> > imagine –
> > in short,
> > processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
> > ‘double-barreled’ in
> > that
> > it recognizes in its primary integrity no
> > division
> > between act
> > and material, subject and object, but
> > contains them
> > both in an
> > unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and ‘thought’, as
> > James says
> > in the
> > same connection, are single-barreled; they
> > refer to
> > products
> > discriminated by reflection out of primary
> > experience (1929
> > PJD:
> > 256-7).
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > Larry Purss wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > On page 12 of the article on Dewey's
> > notionotion of
> > experience the theme
> > of experience AS
> > "life overcomes and transforms factors of
> > opposition to
> > achieve higher
> > significance. Harmony and equilibrium are the
> > resullts
> > not of
> > mechanical
> > processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of
> > tension. The
> > rhythmic
> > ALTERNATION
> > within the live creature BETWEEN unity and
> > disunity
> > becomes
> > CONSCIOUS in
> > humans. Emotion signifies BREAKS in
> > experience which
> > are then
> > resolved
> > through reflective action"
> >
> > I thought this may be a way in to *start* the
> > conversational
> > dialogue with
> > perezhivanie.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
> > <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Michael, Mike:
> > One more fragment on the definition of
> > sentipensante:
> >
> > Sentipensante pedagogy offers a
> transformative
> > vision of
> > education that
> > emphasizes the harmonic, complementary
> > relationship
> > between the sentir of
> > intuition and the pensar of intellect and
> > scholarship;
> > between teaching and
> > learning; between formal knowledge and
> > wisdom; and
> > between
> > Western and
> > non-Western ways of knowing.
> >
> > Seems to have some family resemblance to
> > this theme of
> > experience
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Larry Purss
> > <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> >
> > Mike,
> > Thanks for this.
> > Stanford Pub is a wonderful resource.
> > I seem to
> > download an author
> > approximately once a month. For $10 you
> > support them
> > and get the articles
> > sent in a PDF format.
> >
> > Michael , here is a link [in Spanish]
> > to a youtube
> > video of Orlando
> > Fals-Borda discussing his understanding
> of
> > experience
> > from the heart.
> > If you have any articles in English
> > which you can
> > share, this seems to be
> > exploring experience within "felt
> > awareness".
> > Seems to be a fascinating expansion of
> the
> > understanding of experience.
> >
> > Thanks, Michael and Mike
> >
> > Larry
> >
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM, mike
> cole
> > <lchcmike@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
> > a quick
> > summary of Dewey on
> > experience. Note that his ideas
> > are considered
> > unusual by the author.
> > That
> > Stanford pub seems very useful.
> > mike
> >
> >
> > http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
> > Larry Purss
> > <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > Michael,
> > I also found this site for
> Orlando
> > Fals Borda.
> >
> > http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
> > If it is off topic please ignore.
> > However, it
> > is where my curiosity was
> > called or invited.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM,
> > Glassman,
> > Michael <
> >
> > glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
> > <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> > <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> > <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
> >
> > <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> > Perhaps
> > another avenue to
> > explore might be Ortega y
> > Gasset's
> > ideas on
> > experience (which is
> > probably in
> > some ways
> > reflective of Dewey)
> >
> > which was
> >
> > appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
> > in the
> > concept of vivencia -
> >
> > which is
> >
> > very compelling - and became an
> > important
> > part of Fals-Borda's
> >
> > conception
> >
> > of Participatory Action Research.
> > This
> > might then tie back to the
> >
> > earlier
> >
> > issue on PAR.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From:
> > xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> > [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>] on
> >
> >
> > behalf
> >
> > of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >>>]
> >
> > Sent: Monday, February 18,
> > 2013
> > 2:28 PM
> > To: Beth Ferholt
> > Cc: Galina Zuckerman; John
> > Shotter; Boris
> > Meshcheryakov; eXtended
> >
> > Mind,
> >
> > Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
> > Alexander Asmolov
> > Subject: Re: [xmca]
> > Perezhivanie and
> > Dewey's concept of experience
> >
> > Thanks Beth--
> >
> > I ask, firstly, because there
> > appear quite
> > clear overlaps as you and
> >
> > Monica
> >
> > have been exploring.
> >
> > Secondly, we have two
> > submissions
> > to MCA
> > on perezhivanie that are
> >
> > very
> >
> > focused on Russian authors. Over
> > and above
> > competing
> > exegeses of the ideas of
> > Vygotsky,
> > Puyzerei, etc., it seems
> > important
> >
> > that
> >
> > we figure out ways to explore
> > different
> > ways of thinking about the
> >
> > general
> >
> > category of "experience" that will be
> > productive of new
> > empirical and
> > theoretical investigation.
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
> > 9:42 AM, Beth
> > Ferholt
> > <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
> > <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
> > <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
> >
> > <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Monica and I have just started
> > using
> > the two concepts in
> >
> > conjunction,
> >
> > as
> >
> > we write about the relation
> > between
> > play and learning and
> > Dewey's
> >
> > ideas
> >
> > on
> >
> > the relation between art and
> > science
> > in Art and Experience.
> > I am
> >
> > very
> >
> > interested in any ref. you
> > find as I
> > have found none yet. Can
> I
> >
> > ask why
> >
> > you
> >
> > ask now? Beth
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 18, 2013
> > at 6:09
> > PM, mike
> > cole
> > <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
> >
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >
> > <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > Has anyone written on uses
> > of the
> > term perezhivanie
> > as used
> > in the
> > cultural
> > historical
> > tradition and
> > Dewey's
> > concept of
> experience?
> >
> > references?
> >
> > mike
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> >
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> >
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> > --
> > Beth Ferholt
> > Assistant Professor
> > School of Education
> > Brooklyn College, City
> > University of
> > New York
> > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> >
> > Email:
> > bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
> >
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> >
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
> >
> > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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> >>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
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> >
> >
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> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> >
> >
> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
> >
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <
> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
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