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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
- To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
- Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
- From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 17:12:34 -0800
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Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and Language" vs
"Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
and Dilthey......
Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
an interesting exercise!
mike
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> Oh I see!
> It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list fundamental human
> actions/relations which provide the foundation for language, along with
> travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial position, he includes
> guns and war. I have taken this as indicative of the nature of life in the
> land of the free. So in this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
> "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's barrel in
> this context.
>
> And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a process verb
> into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the English
> language is undergoing a movement in the reverse direction in recent
> decades, with more and more action-nouns (like "impact") being used as
> verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in which James and Dewey
> were philosophising.
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>
>> A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a wooden or
>> metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over significant
>> periods of a human life span.
>>
>> Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are groping the environment
>> with bodies, the environment is groping us. And given the "ing" in groping,
>> its not a noun, its a process occurring over
>>
>> time.
>>
>> Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain, so to speak.
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>
>> I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
>> Andy
>>
>> mike cole wrote:
>>
>> Those are both terrifically useful passages to think with,
>> Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really resonate to the
>> notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first passage, and
>> the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I think for the
>> latter that
>> barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way" /temporality/
>> is backgrounded.
>>
>> thanks!
>> mike
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
>> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>>
>> What about this one Larry?
>>
>> ‘Experience’ is what James called a double-barreled
>> word. Like
>> its congeners, life and history, it includes /what/
>> men do and
>> suffer, /what/ they strive for, love, believe and
>> endure, and
>> /how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways in which
>> they do and
>> suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe, imagine –
>> in short,
>> processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
>> ‘double-barreled’ in
>> that
>> it recognizes in its primary integrity no division
>> between act
>> and material, subject and object, but contains them
>> both in an
>> unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and ‘thought’, as
>> James says
>> in the
>> same connection, are single-barreled; they refer to
>> products
>> discriminated by reflection out of primary
>> experience (1929
>> PJD:
>> 256-7).
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> Larry Purss wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>>
>> On page 12 of the article on Dewey's notionotion of
>> experience the theme
>> of experience AS
>> "life overcomes and transforms factors of opposition to
>> achieve higher
>> significance. Harmony and equilibrium are the resullts
>> not of
>> mechanical
>> processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of tension. The
>> rhythmic
>> ALTERNATION
>> within the live creature BETWEEN unity and disunity
>> becomes
>> CONSCIOUS in
>> humans. Emotion signifies BREAKS in experience which
>> are then
>> resolved
>> through reflective action"
>>
>> I thought this may be a way in to *start* the
>> conversational
>> dialogue with
>> perezhivanie.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>**>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Michael, Mike:
>> One more fragment on the definition of sentipensante:
>>
>> Sentipensante pedagogy offers a transformative
>> vision of
>> education that
>> emphasizes the harmonic, complementary relationship
>> between the sentir of
>> intuition and the pensar of intellect and scholarship;
>> between teaching and
>> learning; between formal knowledge and wisdom; and
>> between
>> Western and
>> non-Western ways of knowing.
>>
>> Seems to have some family resemblance to this theme of
>> experience
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Larry Purss
>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>**> wrote:
>>
>> Mike,
>> Thanks for this.
>> Stanford Pub is a wonderful resource. I seem to
>> download an author
>> approximately once a month. For $10 you
>> support them
>> and get the articles
>> sent in a PDF format.
>>
>> Michael , here is a link [in Spanish] to a youtube
>> video of Orlando
>> Fals-Borda discussing his understanding of
>> experience
>> from the heart.
>> If you have any articles in English which you can
>> share, this seems to be
>> exploring experience within "felt awareness".
>> Seems to be a fascinating expansion of the
>> understanding of experience.
>>
>> Thanks, Michael and Mike
>>
>> Larry
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=LbJWqetRuMo<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM, mike cole
>> <lchcmike@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Larry.
>> Viva la differencia. Here is
>> a quick
>> summary of Dewey on
>> experience. Note that his ideas are considered
>> unusual by the author.
>> That
>> Stanford pub seems very useful.
>> mike
>>
>> http://plato.stanford.edu/**
>> entries/dewey-aesthetics/#**HavExp<http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Larry Purss
>> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>**>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Michael,
>> I also found this site for Orlando
>> Fals Borda.
>> http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/**
>> falsborda.htm <http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm>
>> If it is off topic please ignore.
>> However, it
>> is where my curiosity was
>> called or invited.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM,
>> Glassman,
>> Michael <
>>
>> glassman.13@osu.edu
>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
>>
>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>> Perhaps another avenue to
>> explore might be Ortega y Gasset's
>> ideas on
>> experience (which is probably in
>> some ways
>> reflective of Dewey)
>>
>> which was
>>
>> appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
>> in the
>> concept of vivencia -
>>
>> which is
>>
>> very compelling - and became an
>> important
>> part of Fals-Borda's
>>
>> conception
>> of
>> Participatory Action Research.
>> This
>> might then tie back to the
>>
>> earlier
>>
>> issue on PAR.
>>
>> Michael
>> ______________________________
>> **__________
>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> >
>> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**
>> ucsd.edu <xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>
>> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> >>
>> [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
>> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> >
>> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**
>> ucsd.edu <xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>
>> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>]
>> on
>>
>>
>> behalf
>>
>> of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>]
>>
>> Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013
>> 2:28 PM
>> To: Beth Ferholt
>> Cc: Galina Zuckerman; John
>> Shotter; Boris
>> Meshcheryakov; eXtended
>>
>> Mind,
>>
>> Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
>> Alexander Asmolov
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and
>> Dewey's concept of experience
>>
>> Thanks Beth--
>>
>> I ask, firstly, because there
>> appear quite
>> clear overlaps as you and
>>
>> Monica
>>
>> have been exploring.
>>
>> Secondly, we have two submissions
>> to MCA
>> on perezhivanie that are
>>
>> very
>>
>> focused on Russian authors. Over
>> and above
>> competing
>> exegeses of the ideas of Vygotsky,
>> Puyzerei, etc., it seems important
>>
>> that
>>
>> we figure out ways to explore
>> different
>> ways of thinking about the
>>
>> general
>>
>> category of "experience" that will be
>> productive of new empirical and
>> theoretical investigation.
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Beth
>> Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Monica and I have just started
>> using
>> the two concepts in
>>
>> conjunction,
>> as
>>
>> we write about the relation
>> between
>> play and learning and Dewey's
>>
>> ideas
>> on
>>
>> the relation between art and
>> science
>> in Art and Experience. I am
>>
>> very
>>
>> interested in any ref. you
>> find as I
>> have found none yet. Can I
>>
>> ask why
>> you
>>
>> ask now? Beth
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:09
>> PM, mike
>> cole <lchcmike@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
>>
>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Has anyone written on uses
>> of the
>> term perezhivanie as used
>> in the
>> cultural
>> historical tradition and
>> Dewey's
>> concept of experience?
>>
>> references?
>>
>> mike
>>
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>>
>>
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Beth Ferholt
>> Assistant Professor
>> School of Education
>> Brooklyn College, City
>> University of
>> New York
>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>>
>> Email:
>> bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.**cuny.edu<bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>> >
>> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.
>> **cuny.edu <bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>>
>> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.**cuny.edu <bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>> >>
>>
>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>
>>
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>> -- ------------------------------**
>> ------------------------------**------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/*
>> *>
>>
>>
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
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>> -- ------------------------------**------------------------------
>> **------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/
>> **>
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
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> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
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