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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience



Oh I see!
It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list fundamental human actions/relations which provide the foundation for language, along with travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as indicative of the nature of life in the land of the free. So in this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's barrel in this context.

And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a process verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse direction in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like "impact") being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in which James and Dewey were philosophising.

Andy

mike cole wrote:
A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a wooden or
metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over significant periods of a human life span.

Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are groping the environment with bodies, the environment is groping us. And given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its a process occurring over
time.

Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain, so to speak.

mike

On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
    Andy

    mike cole wrote:

        Those are both terrifically useful passages to think with,
        Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really resonate to the
        notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first passage, and
        the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I think for the
        latter that
        barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way" /temporality/
        is backgrounded.

        thanks!
        mike


        On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
        <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:

            What about this one Larry?

                   ‘Experience’ is what James called a double-barreled
        word. Like
                   its congeners, life and history, it includes /what/
        men do and
                   suffer, /what/ they strive for, love, believe and
        endure, and
                   /how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways in which
        they do and
                   suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe, imagine –
        in short,
                   processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
        ‘double-barreled’ in
            that
                   it recognizes in its primary integrity no division
        between act
                   and material, subject and object, but contains them
        both in an
                   unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and ‘thought’, as
        James says
            in the
                   same connection, are single-barreled; they refer to
        products
                   discriminated by reflection out of primary
        experience (1929
            PJD:
                   256-7).

            Andy


            Larry Purss wrote:

                Mike,

                On page 12 of the  article on Dewey's notionotion of
                experience the theme
                of experience AS
                "life overcomes and transforms factors of opposition to
                achieve higher
                significance. Harmony and equilibrium are the resullts
        not of
                mechanical
                processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of tension.  The
        rhythmic
                ALTERNATION
                within the live creature BETWEEN unity and disunity
        becomes
                CONSCIOUS in
                humans.  Emotion signifies BREAKS in experience which
        are then
                resolved
                through reflective action"

                I thought this may be a way in to *start* the
        conversational
                dialogue  with
                perezhivanie.

                Larry

                On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
                <lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>
        wrote:

Michael, Mike:
                    One more fragment on the  definition of sentipensante:

                    Sentipensante pedagogy offers a transformative
        vision of
                    education that
                    emphasizes the harmonic, complementary relationship
                    between the sentir of
                    intuition and the pensar of intellect and scholarship;
                    between teaching and
                    learning; between formal knowledge and wisdom; and
        between
                    Western and
                    non-Western ways of knowing.

                    Seems to have some family resemblance to this theme of
                    experience
                    Larry




                    On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Larry Purss
                    <lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>> wrote:

Mike,
                        Thanks for this.
                        Stanford Pub is a wonderful resource.  I seem to
                        download an author
                        approximately once a month. For $10 you
        support them
                        and get the articles
                        sent in a PDF format.

                        Michael , here is a link [in Spanish] to a youtube
                        video of Orlando
                        Fals-Borda discussing his understanding of
        experience
                        from the heart.
                        If you have any articles in English which you can
                        share, this seems to be
                        exploring experience within "felt awareness".
                        Seems to be a fascinating expansion of the
                        understanding of experience.

                        Thanks, Michael and Mike

                        Larry
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo

                        On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM, mike cole
                        <lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>> wrote:

Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
        a quick
                            summary of Dewey on
                            experience. Note that his ideas are considered
                            unusual by the author.
                            That
                            Stanford pub seems very useful.
                            mike

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp

                            On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Larry Purss
                            <lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>

                            wrote:

Michael,
                                I also found this site for Orlando
        Fals Borda.
                                http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
                                If it is off topic please ignore.
        However, it
                                is where my curiosity was
                                called or invited.

                                Larry

                                On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM,
        Glassman,
                                Michael <
glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>

wrote:
                                                Perhaps another avenue to
                                    explore might be Ortega y Gasset's
        ideas on
                                    experience (which is probably in
        some ways
                                    reflective of Dewey)
which was appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
        in the
                                    concept of vivencia -
which is very compelling - and became an
        important
                                    part of Fals-Borda's
conception of Participatory Action Research.
         This
                                    might then tie back to the
earlier issue on PAR.

                                    Michael
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behalf of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
                                    <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>]

                                    Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013
        2:28 PM
                                    To: Beth Ferholt
                                    Cc: Galina Zuckerman; John
        Shotter; Boris
                                    Meshcheryakov; eXtended
Mind, Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
                                    Alexander Asmolov
                                    Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and
                                    Dewey's concept of experience

                                    Thanks Beth--

                                    I ask, firstly, because there
        appear quite
                                    clear overlaps as you and
Monica have been exploring.

                                    Secondly, we have two submissions
        to MCA
                                    on perezhivanie that are
very focused on Russian authors. Over
        and above
                                    competing
                                    exegeses of the ideas of Vygotsky,
                                    Puyzerei, etc., it seems important
that we figure out ways to explore
        different
                                    ways of thinking about the
general category of "experience" that will be
                                    productive of new empirical and
                                    theoretical investigation.

                                    mike

                                    On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:42 AM, Beth
                                    Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
                                    <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>

wrote: Monica and I have just started
        using
                                        the two concepts in
conjunction, as we write about the relation
        between
                                        play and learning and Dewey's
ideas on the relation between art and
        science
                                        in Art and Experience.  I am
very interested in any ref. you
        find as I
                                        have found none yet. Can I
ask why you ask now? Beth


                                        On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 6:09
        PM, mike
                                        cole <lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
                                        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>

wrote: Has anyone written on uses
        of the
                                            term perezhivanie as used
        in the
                                            cultural
                                            historical tradition and
        Dewey's
                                            concept of experience?
references? mike __________________________________________
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                                        --
                                        Beth Ferholt
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                                        School of Education
                                        Brooklyn College, City
        University of
                                        New York
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-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
            *Andy Blunden*
            Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
        <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>

            Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
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*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
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