Re: [xmca] Time perception in childhood

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Oh! I misunderstood because I thought that you were calling for study of
the development of the brain by educators. ("I observe that the
conservatory education here in Turkey does not take into account the
possible development of the brain ").
I was not clear on what you were calling for. My apology for
misunderstanding.

mike
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 10:27 AM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Mike,
>
> Thanks. But, how can I discount the role of instruction in this process? I
> , myself, stated and emphasized that this is thanks to the effect of
> education on brain that we owe this development.  Am I wrong?
>
> Ulvi
>
> 2013/5/27 mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
>
>> Ulvi--
>>
>> Two things to consider.
>>
>> 1. A good deal of research points to a major "spurt" as well as
>> reorganization of interfunctional brain systems at about age 7. This is
>> why
>> in our textbook on child development my wife and I used the notion of
>> "bio-social-behavioral shift" in a cognitive context to indicate the
>> mixture of factors that come together to produce such rapid changes.
>>
>> 2. Why do you discount the role of instruction in this rapid change?
>> Assume
>> there was a rapid brain change, would the changes you observe had occurred
>> if there had been no intervening instruction? Seems like a LOT of highly
>> organized experience co-incided with any brain changes.
>>
>> These questions in no way diminish the astonishment we feel when we are
>> privileged to be present at such "moments"! Neat.
>> mike
>>
>> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Greg,
>> >
>> > My son is born on 2005 , May.
>> >
>> > So just one year ago those days, in May 2012, when seven, he was unable,
>> > and now he is.
>> >
>> > But real , focused ear training began in December 1st. So not even one
>> > year, just 6 months.
>> >
>> > Ulvi
>> >
>> > 2013/5/27 Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > > Ulvi,
>> > > Fascinating.
>> > > What were the ages of your son before and after getting the notes?
>> > >
>> > > I don't think that here in the u.s. we are any better at attending to
>> > > natural development across time. Instead, we use it as a sorting
>> > mechanism
>> > > and the parents who are insistent enough for a long enough time will
>> > > generally have their children recognized as being more capable,
>> > competent,
>> > > smart, etc. b.c. if you keep insisting on having your child tested,
>> > > eventually they will have experienced the further developments and be
>> > able
>> > > to do the task (and much of school sorting is predicated upon pushing
>> the
>> > > tests earlier than is developmentally appropriate - b.c. otherwise
>> almost
>> > > all of the kids would be able to do them - in which case it would be
>> > > useless as a sorting mechanism). The trick is to get a special
>> exception
>> > > for your child later. Since schools don't seem to notice developmental
>> > > time, their major concern for them is the bureaucratic one of having
>> to
>> > > make an exception. The tragedy, of course, is that those who are have
>> the
>> > > cultural capital to get the exception are the upper-middle- and upper-
>> > > class folks. Good old American meritocracy!
>> > >
>> > > Would love to hear of an educational system that truly takes
>> development
>> > > into account.
>> > >
>> > > -greg
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Is Diana Deutsch a member of xmca?
>> > > >
>> > > > Well, I intend to share an experience about the development of my
>> son's
>> > > > hearing of single notes and melodies.
>> > > >
>> > > > Not even one year, but around 8 months ago, my son was unable in
>> > general
>> > > to
>> > > > spell the correct name of a single note on the piano, put aside the
>> > > melody
>> > > > consisting of 8 to 10 notes. (He is born in 2005, May), when his
>> back
>> > > > turned against the piano.
>> > > >
>> > > > He started to take lessons from a conservatory teacher in September
>> > once
>> > > a
>> > > > week, regularly making sound exercises at home on a daily basis.
>> > > >
>> > > > During 8 months, I witnessed to his incredible development. For
>> > instance,
>> > > > during five minutes,  his back turned to piano, you can play
>> > continuosly
>> > > > and fastly single notes, interchangeably as you press the key he
>> spells
>> > > the
>> > > > note and as he spells you press the key. It is astonishing that
>> there
>> > is
>> > > > not a single mistake.
>> > > >
>> > > > The same is valid for melodies of 8 to 10 notes. His memory was very
>> > > weak 8
>> > > > months  ago not even to remember 3-4 notes successively. Now he can
>> > > repeat
>> > > > all kinds of melodies appropriate for his age.
>> > > >
>> > > > Is this due to the development of some brain parts with education? I
>> > > think
>> > > > so.
>> > > >
>> > > > I observe that the conservatory education here in Turkey does not
>> take
>> > > into
>> > > > account the possible development of the brain and the teachers, who
>> do
>> > > not
>> > > > make use of interdisciplinary research, evaluate the child at a
>> given
>> > > > moment , as not having strong musical memory or not having good ear
>> > etc.
>> > > > whereas , as I witnessed it, the ear of the child , in fact, his
>> brain
>> > > and
>> > > > his ear, develop in an incredible way.
>> > > >
>> > > > Well, the question is: Is our conservatory education in Turkey is
>> too
>> > > much
>> > > > archaic (I mean not making use of interdisciplinary research on
>> brain
>> > > > development with musical education) or is it somehow similar
>> worldwide,
>> > > > tending to gain the "talented"  children and to start to eliminate
>> > others
>> > > > as soon as they do not hear at any given moment...
>> > > >
>> > > > After our experience about my son, I , once more, believed, in the
>> > > immense
>> > > > power of education for developing the children.
>> > > >
>> > > > Ulvi
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> > > > From: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
>> > > > Date: 2013/5/17
>> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Time perception in childhood
>> > > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Ulvi -- do post the responses you receive, thanks! -- BTW, here in
>> > Sweden
>> > > > the preschool where I am working had a study of time organized by
>> > > children
>> > > > ... they forces their classmates to "be bored" (do nothing) and
>> timed
>> > > them,
>> > > > then forced them to have fun (?) and timed them again, to see if
>> time
>> > > > really goes faster when you are having fun than when you are bored
>> ...
>> > > but
>> > > > then they had to build a time machine to correct some errors in the
>> > > > calculations.  Beth
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Dear all,
>> > > > >
>> > > > > I look for some basic references on time perception by children,
>> how
>> > it
>> > > > > evolves in childhood, how it can be supported via scaffolding,
>> best
>> > > > parent
>> > > > > approaches to time management for children, relationship with
>> > > > > self-regulation, how it flows during intended activities (play)
>> and
>> > > > > unintended (school work for some children) and so on?
>> > > > > In addition, its relationship with music education (instrument,
>> > > > > specifically piano education) since I observe that it is a serious
>> > > > problem
>> > > > > for piano pedagogues to prevent their students mostly from playing
>> > fast
>> > > > > etc.
>> > > > > I appreciate any recommendation.
>> > > > > Ulvi
>> > > > > __________________________________________
>> > > > > _____
>> > > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Beth Ferholt
>> > > > Assistant Professor
>> > > > School of Education
>> > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>> > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
>> > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>> > > >
>> > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>> > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
>> > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
>> > > > __________________________________________
>> > > > _____
>> > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > > > __________________________________________
>> > > > _____
>> > > > xmca mailing list
>> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> > > Visiting Assistant Professor
>> > > Department of Anthropology
>> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> > > Brigham Young University
>> > > Provo, UT 84602
>> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>> > >  __________________________________________
>> > > _____
>> > > xmca mailing list
>> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > >
>> > __________________________________________
>> > _____
>> > xmca mailing list
>> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> >
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca