Re: [xmca] Time perception in childhood

[Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>]

Dear Mike,

Thanks. But, how can I discount the role of instruction in this process? I
, myself, stated and emphasized that this is thanks to the effect of
education on brain that we owe this development.  Am I wrong?

Ulvi

2013/5/27 mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>

> Ulvi--
>
> Two things to consider.
>
> 1. A good deal of research points to a major "spurt" as well as
> reorganization of interfunctional brain systems at about age 7. This is why
> in our textbook on child development my wife and I used the notion of
> "bio-social-behavioral shift" in a cognitive context to indicate the
> mixture of factors that come together to produce such rapid changes.
>
> 2. Why do you discount the role of instruction in this rapid change? Assume
> there was a rapid brain change, would the changes you observe had occurred
> if there had been no intervening instruction? Seems like a LOT of highly
> organized experience co-incided with any brain changes.
>
> These questions in no way diminish the astonishment we feel when we are
> privileged to be present at such "moments"! Neat.
> mike
>
> On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Greg,
> >
> > My son is born on 2005 , May.
> >
> > So just one year ago those days, in May 2012, when seven, he was unable,
> > and now he is.
> >
> > But real , focused ear training began in December 1st. So not even one
> > year, just 6 months.
> >
> > Ulvi
> >
> > 2013/5/27 Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> >
> > > Ulvi,
> > > Fascinating.
> > > What were the ages of your son before and after getting the notes?
> > >
> > > I don't think that here in the u.s. we are any better at attending to
> > > natural development across time. Instead, we use it as a sorting
> > mechanism
> > > and the parents who are insistent enough for a long enough time will
> > > generally have their children recognized as being more capable,
> > competent,
> > > smart, etc. b.c. if you keep insisting on having your child tested,
> > > eventually they will have experienced the further developments and be
> > able
> > > to do the task (and much of school sorting is predicated upon pushing
> the
> > > tests earlier than is developmentally appropriate - b.c. otherwise
> almost
> > > all of the kids would be able to do them - in which case it would be
> > > useless as a sorting mechanism). The trick is to get a special
> exception
> > > for your child later. Since schools don't seem to notice developmental
> > > time, their major concern for them is the bureaucratic one of having to
> > > make an exception. The tragedy, of course, is that those who are have
> the
> > > cultural capital to get the exception are the upper-middle- and upper-
> > > class folks. Good old American meritocracy!
> > >
> > > Would love to hear of an educational system that truly takes
> development
> > > into account.
> > >
> > > -greg
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Is Diana Deutsch a member of xmca?
> > > >
> > > > Well, I intend to share an experience about the development of my
> son's
> > > > hearing of single notes and melodies.
> > > >
> > > > Not even one year, but around 8 months ago, my son was unable in
> > general
> > > to
> > > > spell the correct name of a single note on the piano, put aside the
> > > melody
> > > > consisting of 8 to 10 notes. (He is born in 2005, May), when his back
> > > > turned against the piano.
> > > >
> > > > He started to take lessons from a conservatory teacher in September
> > once
> > > a
> > > > week, regularly making sound exercises at home on a daily basis.
> > > >
> > > > During 8 months, I witnessed to his incredible development. For
> > instance,
> > > > during five minutes,  his back turned to piano, you can play
> > continuosly
> > > > and fastly single notes, interchangeably as you press the key he
> spells
> > > the
> > > > note and as he spells you press the key. It is astonishing that there
> > is
> > > > not a single mistake.
> > > >
> > > > The same is valid for melodies of 8 to 10 notes. His memory was very
> > > weak 8
> > > > months  ago not even to remember 3-4 notes successively. Now he can
> > > repeat
> > > > all kinds of melodies appropriate for his age.
> > > >
> > > > Is this due to the development of some brain parts with education? I
> > > think
> > > > so.
> > > >
> > > > I observe that the conservatory education here in Turkey does not
> take
> > > into
> > > > account the possible development of the brain and the teachers, who
> do
> > > not
> > > > make use of interdisciplinary research, evaluate the child at a given
> > > > moment , as not having strong musical memory or not having good ear
> > etc.
> > > > whereas , as I witnessed it, the ear of the child , in fact, his
> brain
> > > and
> > > > his ear, develop in an incredible way.
> > > >
> > > > Well, the question is: Is our conservatory education in Turkey is too
> > > much
> > > > archaic (I mean not making use of interdisciplinary research on brain
> > > > development with musical education) or is it somehow similar
> worldwide,
> > > > tending to gain the "talented"  children and to start to eliminate
> > others
> > > > as soon as they do not hear at any given moment...
> > > >
> > > > After our experience about my son, I , once more, believed, in the
> > > immense
> > > > power of education for developing the children.
> > > >
> > > > Ulvi
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> > > > From: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
> > > > Date: 2013/5/17
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Time perception in childhood
> > > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ulvi -- do post the responses you receive, thanks! -- BTW, here in
> > Sweden
> > > > the preschool where I am working had a study of time organized by
> > > children
> > > > ... they forces their classmates to "be bored" (do nothing) and timed
> > > them,
> > > > then forced them to have fun (?) and timed them again, to see if time
> > > > really goes faster when you are having fun than when you are bored
> ...
> > > but
> > > > then they had to build a time machine to correct some errors in the
> > > > calculations.  Beth
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 12:40 PM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Dear all,
> > > > >
> > > > > I look for some basic references on time perception by children,
> how
> > it
> > > > > evolves in childhood, how it can be supported via scaffolding, best
> > > > parent
> > > > > approaches to time management for children, relationship with
> > > > > self-regulation, how it flows during intended activities (play) and
> > > > > unintended (school work for some children) and so on?
> > > > > In addition, its relationship with music education (instrument,
> > > > > specifically piano education) since I observe that it is a serious
> > > > problem
> > > > > for piano pedagogues to prevent their students mostly from playing
> > fast
> > > > > etc.
> > > > > I appreciate any recommendation.
> > > > > Ulvi
> > > > > __________________________________________
> > > > > _____
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> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Beth Ferholt
> > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > School of Education
> > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > >
> > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > Visiting Assistant Professor
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
> > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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