[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

RE: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience

The only time that I know of that LSV talks about catharsis is in The Psychology of Art, where he does not talk about perezhivanie, at least in the 1971 MIT translation; but according to Van der Veer, that translation only includes about half of what's available in Russian.

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2013 6:09 PM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience

Before moving on to Wundt, and Aristotle I wonder if any xmca correspondents could help me with this question?

In my collection of quotes at
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm I was able to line up Dewey's concept of "an experience" with Vygotsky's concept of "perezhivanie" on 5 different "dimensions". But there is one aspect of perezehivanie which I can line up with Freud and Stanislavsky and several contemporary commentators such as Ferholt, Kravtsov, Vasilyuk, ..., but I can't find it in Dewey and I don't know where to find it in Vygotsky, and that is:

* in order to function in development, perezhivanie must be "recalled" 
and "worked over" in "catharsis" which is related to what Mike Cole calls "prolepsis" or "temporality". Where do I find a clear expression for this idea in Vygotsky and is it to be found in Dewey?

Andy

Larry Purss wrote:
> Mike, Andy, Martin
>
> Mike has summarized the thread to this point in the conversation with 
> the
> comment:
>
>  I was also delighted to see the connection to Dilthey. To me he 
> stands for the "understanding" side of Wundt's duality between 
> volkpsychology and experimental psychology. Two sides of the crisis.
> Add it to your list of quotations about perezhivanie, Andy, and lets 
> link it somehow to xmca.
>
> Mike, as we link up Dilthey, Dewey, and Vygotsky we seem to be linking 
> up *lived experience* which emphasizes the SUBJECTIVE emotional, 
> visceral significance of lived experience.
>
> Another central concept is the understanding of *recollection* when 
> the impact of the situation on the person summons up the entire lived 
> experience of development.
>
> Does Aristotle's notion of *phronesis* as the relationship BETWEEN
> *character* and *application* also offer another source for linking to 
> perezhivanie?? My reason for asking is that Gadamer has *recollected* 
> lived experience as *flourishing* by returning to Aristotle. Aristotle 
> also was exploring notions of the *moral good* and I want to link this 
> to page 3 of Andy's notes on perezhivanie. On page 3 Vygotsky uses the 
> metaphor of
> *prism* and *refraction* on the environments role and influence on the 
> course of development. Vygotsky is suggesting the discipline of 
> pedology as a genre OUGHT to always be capable of finding the 
> particular *prism* THROUGH WHICH the influence of the environment of 
> the environment on the child is REFRACTED. In Vygotsky's own words pedology:
>
> "OUGHT to be able to find the relationship which exists between the 
> child and its environment, the child's emotional experience 
> [perezhivanie], in other words how a child BECOMES AWARE of, 
> INTERPRETS, [and] EMOTIONALLY RELATES to a certain event. This is such 
> a prism which DETERMINES the role and influence of the environment on 
> the development of, say, the child's CHARACTER, his psychological development, etc.
>
> Andy the way you chose to present the multiple shades of meaning of 
> perezhivanie [TRANSlated as "lived experience"] through gathering 
> together multiple authors each presenting their particular 
> understanding of "lived experience" I found helpful in offering a 
> deepening clarity of perezhivanie. In conjunction with Dewey's 
> understanding of aesthetic experience as a deepening *intensification* 
> of lived experience and Dilthey's exploration of lived experience as 
> *undergoing*, possible new linkings or avenues of conversation open up.
>
> Fascinating thread which brings to center stage questions of 
> subjectivity, intra-subjectivity, inter-subjectivity, 
> trans-subjectivity and how these various understandings of 
> subjectivity [and character development] link to perezhivanie. I 
> appreciate how XMCA is contributing to my personal development.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 6:25 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   
>> I expect Ivo just sat that dangling issue there on purpose and I was 
>> also delighted to see the connection to Dilthey.  To me he stands for 
>> the "understanding" side of Wundt's duality between volkpsychology 
>> and experimental psychology. Two sides of the crisis.
>>
>> Add it to your list of quotations about perezhivanie, Andy, and lets 
>> link it somehow to xmca.
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 24, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>
>>     
>>> Marvellous quote, Martin. None of these issues were discovered 
>>> yesterday, it seems.
>>> I had forgotten that a couple of years ago I made up a collection of 
>>> quotes from various writers on "Perezhivanie" here:
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.**org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm<
>>>       
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/perezhivanie.htm>
>>     
>>> Andy
>>>
>>>
>>> Martin Packer wrote:
>>>
>>>       
>>>> On Feb 19, 2013, at 7:13 PM, Ivo Banaco <ibanaco@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>         
>>>>>
>>>>>           
>>>>>> Sorry, I've just realized I've mistaken Dewey with Dilthey, I 
>>>>>> wonder why...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>             
>>>> Perhaps because all of this was in Dilthey too.
>>>>
>>>> Dilthey (1833-1911) considered human experience (erlebnis, usually 
>>>> translated 'lived experience') to be concrete and historical, 
>>>> always
>>>>         
>> shaped
>>     
>>>> by the context of the past and by the horizon of the future, and he
>>>>         
>> argued
>>     
>>>> that lived experience is the basis for all understanding. Lived
>>>>         
>> experience
>>     
>>>> is a direct, immediate, pre-reflective contact with life, an act of 
>>>> perceiving in which the person is unified with the object of their 
>>>> understanding. It is made up not of static cognitive categories but 
>>>> of meaningful unities which are prior to the separation between 
>>>> emotion, willing,  with knowing. Lived experience contains within 
>>>> it the
>>>>         
>> temporality
>>     
>>>> of living, and of life itself.
>>>> "That which in the stream of time forms a unity in the present 
>>>> because
>>>>         
>> it
>>     
>>>> has a unitary meaning is the smallest entity which we can designate 
>>>> as
>>>>         
>> an
>>     
>>>> experience" (Dilthey, Collected Works 7, 194)
>>>>
>>>> "The experience does not stand like an object over against its 
>>>> experiencer, but rather its very existence for me is 
>>>> undifferentiated
>>>>         
>> from
>>     
>>>> the whatness which is present for me in it" (Collected Works 7, 
>>>> 139)
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>>           
>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>>>>         
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>     
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>>> ------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
>>>       
>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>>     
>>> ______________________________**____________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
>>>       
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>     
>> __________________________________________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>>     
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>   

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca


__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca