RE: [xmca] Micro-hermeneutic process

[Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>]

I
perceive the problem of the oil only when take consciousness that all animals
are equally sad spite their different positions in Evolution. There was two Cartesian vectorial axis. But the
horizontal did not shows exactly the diachronic line (as is more common) – it is
the vertical axis that shows the diachronic change (the older on
bottom and newer at top). And in the horizontal axis all them
are in the same time live (micro-diachronic line, but you can consider synchronic),
going together to a bad common future. My first perception of the oil was not
because black color, it is so common this pictures with gestalt pictures be
black and white, that black was not so important for the oil… But I perceive
the drop in Pelican… And at first glance coulde be a kind of “Tear” and I had
note that nobody was happy… But no… A tear would not be at that place… it was
the oil… :-( 

 




Nice experiencing to me. Thank you very
much… 
Achilles.


> Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 13:04:56 -0700
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Micro-hermeneutic process
> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> 
> That is totally great, Achilles. I am collecting all the responses and will
> put them together. You started with a conceptual orientation to evolution so
> you read from bottom to top. At first the pelican was puzzling as the top
> bird but then something happened and the idea of oil came to you, and then
> your conceptual frame changed again.
> 
> What about PERception? I will not summarize my own journey in this note, but
> it took a LONG time before i saw what at the bottom, where the turtle is,
> the black areas now look like plumes of oil coming out of the ocean floor.
> 
> I am not sure about the politics of the whole thing. I wonder if the artist
> was simply commenting on the plight of wildlife in the oil spill or making a
> big political statement -- I am guessing the former. Americans do not make a
> big (only a little, anti-Obama) political argument about the oil spill,
> perhaps because THEY are guilty of massive overconsumption of oil.
> 
> Glad it was a good experience. Nothing to be ashamed about. Why should the
> macro-political context be first in your mind?
> 
> micro-hermeneutics is a GREAT term! It is also microgenesis of a concept
> that is tangled up with changing perception as well.
> 
> mike
> 
> On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 12:52 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hey Mike, here attached is my intro-extrospection about the picture. I'm
> > surprised with my results, but I swear I didn't burn the evidences of my
> > silliness... :-)
> >
> > Thank you.
> >
> > Achilles.
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 18:57:25 +0000
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you very much.
> > >
> > > I am looking at - high now. Give me some time in order to not talk things
> > without some reflection. I can say, in advance, that I appreciate the
> > methodological propose... Is intellectuality interesting and affectively
> > pleasant...
> > > See you soon. Thank you again.
> > > Best.
> > >
> > > *******|||||||||||
> > > > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 11:41:31 -0700
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >
> > > > OK, I will read when possible. Soon I hope!!
> > > >
> > > > Here is the link to the image. My interest is in your introspective
> > > > microgenetic process of interpreting it.
> > > > mike
> > > > -------------
> > > > The New Yorker has done it again. If you have a minute, take a look at
> > this
> > > > week's cover.
> > > > In the process of looking new meanings will emerge. How they emerge
> > appears
> > > > to differ from person to person. I would REALLY appreciate a
> > microgenetic
> > > > introspective report from anyone with the time. I have now collected
> > three
> > > > examples of such, including my own and all three are different.
> > > >
> > > > I sure wish I could get to ask Vygotsky and Eistenshtein to do this and
> > > > report to us about it!!
> > > > mike
> > > >
> > > > http://archives.newyorker.com/?i=2010-07
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:34 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I could not look at, until now... Unfortunately I had not read most
> > of XMCA
> > > > > topics last times, because I was working at a little paper here, I'm
> > > > > suffering a lot, because the publisher cuts in my original... well...
> > Poor
> > > > > Vygotsky - if me, being nobody, turned so sad, I wonder how crude
> > must had
> > > > > been for him, that was a genius :-) ... And so, I don't know what is
> > > > > happening by other communication means as well. Can you point me some
> > link?
> > > > >
> > > > > See, here are the three versions with the page numbers. I put
> > attached too,
> > > > > in case of problems with text configuration.... (some typing mistakes
> > will
> > > > > be my fault, please forgive me in advance)...
> > > > >
> > > > > I
> > > > > – At the Reader
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > “These
> > > > > observations lead us to the conclusion that the child solves a
> > practical
> > > > > task
> > > > > with the help of not only eyes and hands, but also speech. This newly
> > born
> > > > > unity of perception, speech and action, which leads to the
> > inculcation of
> > > > > the
> > > > > laws of the visual field, constitutes the real and vital object of
> > analysis
> > > > > aimed
> > > > > at studing the origin of specifically human forms of behavior”
> > > > >
> > > > > (p. 109)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > II
> > > > > – At “Collected Works” - Volume 6.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > “These
> > > > > observations bring us to the conclusion that the child solves a
> > practical
> > > > > problem not only with his eyes and hands, but also with the help of
> > speech.
> > > > > The
> > > > > unity of perception that has developed, of speech and action, which
> > leads
> > > > > to a
> > > > > re-organization of the signs of the visual field, also makes up a
> > > > > subordinate
> > > > > and very important object of analysis directed toward the study of
> > the
> > > > > origin of specifically human forms of behavior."
> > > > >
> > > > > (p. 15 – translation from Russian -
> > > > > Marie J. Hall)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > III - The Russian
> > > > > 1984 - Tom 6
> > > > >
> > > > >  "Эти
> > > > > наблюдения наталкивают нас на вывод, что ребёнок решает практическую
> > задачу
> > > > > не
> > > > > только с помощью глаз и рук, но' и с помощью речи. Возникшее
> >  единство
> > > > > восприятия, речи и действия, которое приводит
> > > > > к перестройке законов  зрительного поля,
> > > > > и составляет подлинный и важнейший объект анализа, направленного на
> > > > > изучение происхождения
> > > > > специфически человеческих форм поведения."
> > > > >
> > > > > (p. 23 – Pedagogika Publisher)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 11:12:31 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > To: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > I need to read the full text again, Achilles. What page does it
> > appear on
> > > > > in LSV's collected works in English and in the "ReadingVygotsky"
> > volume?
> > > > >
> > > > > I am somewhat disappointed that people on XMCA have responded to that
> > New
> > > > > Yorker image at such a "macro" level. Did you get a chance to look at
> > it? Of
> > > > > course, your perception will be changed by what has been written, but
> > still,
> > > > > it is interesting. I will write about it later after others have had
> > a
> > > > > chance to reply, explaining why I find it so interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > mike
> > > > >
> > > > > PS-- I am sorry i missed information that you received the emotions
> > book.
> > > > > too much email, too much work, my usual problem.
> > > > > Its nice to have a three day weekend!!
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes... but I'm not only criticizing the poor conditions of American
> > > > > Editorial Endeavors - of course outside Russia, in USA are the most
> > > > > important publishers for Vygotsky's works in the world, and I'm very
> > > > > thankful for you all... BUT => I was trying to make sense for that
> > unity
> > > > > "action-perception-speech" maybe could really not be the "more"
> > important
> > > > > unity, but an important one, spite not the more important... But let
> > it be.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, thank you very much, that book is very interesting some critics
> > from
> > > > > Vygotsky to James and Langue are almost literally in that book.. But
> > I don't
> > > > > finish yet... I can try to make a rusume to pass you, if could be
> > useful for
> > > > > you... I don't what happens for Chabrier, I guess a sudden death...
> > There
> > > > > are no clues about his biography... and no titles beyond that, -- In
> > Google
> > > > > searches, and other internet databases... I liked him...
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you very much. :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Achilles.
> > > > >
> > > > > P.S. I had answered your question in other e-mail, if you see there
> > later
> > > > > is the almost the same I said here. Best!
> > > > >
> > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 10:24:49 -0700
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > To: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > Who knows, Achilles. I do not know the person or why she confused
> > podlinni
> > > > > with podchinit! (I am guessing). Maybe she was poorly paid and in a
> > hurry.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you get that french book on emotions???
> > > > > mike
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 10:10 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Exactly, I know, the "subordinate" is from American volume 6 (1999) -
> > Marie
> > > > > J. Hall , not mine. My question was why she did this? She didn't have
> > a
> > > > > dictionary as good as you have???
> > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 09:57:58 -0700
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > To:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Podlinni is not subordinate. The three definitions given in the
> > big
> > > > > Russian
> > > > > > dictionary are:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. being original, not copied
> > > > > >  2. real
> > > > > > 3. the most real and true
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > genuine works well as a gloss on all of these.
> > > > > > *vazneishii i would translate as *most important*
> > > > > > On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 9:45 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you very much, Mike.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I only didn't understand that important difference in volume 6 -
> > > > > English
> > > > > > > version (the one that I have is from 1999) and the Russian itself
> > > > > (1984)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > SUBORDINATE and very IMPORTANT *object of analysis*
> > > > > > > X
> > > > > > > ПОДЛИННЫЙ и ВАЖНЕЙШИЙ *объект анализа*,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Except "subordinate" in English is not as "subordinado" in
> > > > > Portuguese...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That unity ("newly born"), action-perception-speech is one
> > important
> > > > > object
> > > > > > > of analysis, among others, or it is the more important at this
> > > > > ontogenetic
> > > > > > > moment? Even I suspect this "unity" is not a "unity of analysis"
> > > > > because if
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > it is the "object of analysis", how can a process be at the same
> > time
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > object of analysis and the own unity to understand this own
> > object???
> > > > > For me
> > > > > > > this unity seems to be something more like a "functional unity"
> > (not
> > > > > exactly
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > in posterior Luria's sense for the 3 functional unities, of
> > course) or
> > > > > > > better "inter-functional unity" -- maybe this "unity" can be
> > called
> > > > > only a
> > > > > > > new "functional system" more precisely... among others... action
> > and
> > > > > speech,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > ok... but why only this two plus "perception"... can not be
> > > > > > > "action-speech-attention", "action-speech-thinking",
> > > > > > > "action-speech-will"???? In this case the not fidel "subordinate"
> > could
> > > > > be
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > even better than the Russian 1984... Please point my mistake in
> > this
> > > > > way of
> > > > > > > reasoning...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *This is very difficult for me to follow. but fidelity works
> > about the
> > > > > > > same way that genuine does.*
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > mike
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2010 08:13:59 -0700
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > To: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think that the 1984 is from something luria had in Russian or
> > these
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > "young" guys could not have translated it into English, but I am
> > > > > unsure.
> > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 10:27 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sure,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > my question is because can happens situations in which a Russian
> > > > > edition is
> > > > > > > translation from a English original publication wrote in English
> > by the
> > > > > own
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Russian authors. Then... I am curious about the source of the
> > 1984's
> > > > > Russian
> > > > > > > edition... If it is published from some "original" manuscripts
> > from
> > > > > 1930 or
> > > > > > > translated based in your american English version, published in
> > the
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > "Vygotsky Reader"s version... it is all...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > . For instance the is a text from Vygotsky originally publishede
> > in
> > > > > English
> > > > > > > about Thought and Schizophrenia... that I guess there is no
> > Russian
> > > > > original
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > version anymore. Spite this must be Russian versions today,
> > translated
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > the English I presume... There is no such situations???
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > **************
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 15:05:13 -0700
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation questions...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Well, I can confirm that they are from the same source because
> > I got
> > > > > this
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > from Luria and my copy had a couple of his hand written changes
> > in
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > translation on it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It is supposed to have been written for an American
> > publication, but
> > > > > was
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > published.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I have been told by the parties involved that Peter Tulviste
> > and
> > > > > Kolya
> > > > > > > > Goldberg translated the version I saw. Peter has moved on to
> > more
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > > things and Kolya was rumored to be in Poland at a Neuropsych
> > conf.
> > > > > (And i
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > could be misinformed, and so could anyone, given the complex
> > > > > > > circumstances
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > between 1930 and 1977!!).
> > > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 12:39 PM, Bella Kotik-Friedgut <
> > > > > > > bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Unfortunately that I do not know for sure
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:58 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you Bella, this is what I had suposed...But this
> > Russian
> > > > > from
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Tom 6
> > > > > > > > > > is really from the1930 version, do you confirm?
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much.Achilles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2010 19:05:33 +0300
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Tool and sign" - translation
> > questions...
> > > > > > > > > > > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > but the "inculcation of the laws of the visual field"
> >  does not
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > correspond
> > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > > ..."перестройка законов зрительного поля"
> > > > > > > > > > > which is reorganization of the laws(or rules) of the
> > visual
> > > > > field
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > so both translations are far from ideal
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > n Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 6:01 PM, Elina Lampert-Shepel <
> > > > > > > > > ellampert@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Achills,
> > > > > > > > > > > > I am in a rush to get into the airport, so please
> > forgive me
> > > > > for
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > quick
> > > > > > > > > > > > analysis.The first sentence is fine in both
> > translations. But
> > > > > I
> > > > > > > agree
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > > > you, Readers' version is more adequate in the second
> > > > > sentence.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Genuine
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > the most important..." would be closer to the original
> > from
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > point
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > of
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > view. I think this is important in understanding of
> > > > > Vygotsky's
> > > > > > > > > concept
> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > > > > > > the unit of analysis of specifically human forms of
> > behavior.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >  "Real,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > reality" are very rare words in Vygotsky's writing.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Elina
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:49 AM, Achilles Delari Junior
> > <
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, XMCA
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Changing subject.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I had noted that we have (at least) two versions from
> > this
> > > > > book
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > "Tool
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > sign" (Luria and Vygotsky, 1930[?]), in English... In
> > this
> > > > > > > simple
> > > > > > > > > > quote
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > bellow I can see something not so irrelevant very
> > > > > different,
> > > > > > > see
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > please:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I - IN THE "VYGOTSKY READER"'S VERSION:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > “These observations lead us to the conclusion
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that the child solves a practical task with the help
> > of not
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > eyes
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > hands, but also speech. This newly born unity of
> > > > > perception,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > speech
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > action,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > which leads to the inculcation of the laws of the
> > visual
> > > > > field,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > constitutes
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the REAL and VITAL *object of analysis* aimed at
> > studing
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > origin
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of specifically human forms of behavior” (I had a
> > notice
> > > > > that
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > > > > was passed from Luria for Michael Cole in past, is
> > this
> > > > > > > information
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > correct,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Mike? - then I don't know who was the translator...
> > maybe
> > > > > Luria
> > > > > > > > > > himself?)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > II - IN THE "COLLECTED WORKS" (VOLUME 6) - version:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > “These observations bring us to the conclusion
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > that the child solves a practical problem not only
> > with his
> > > > > > > eyes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > hands,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > but
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > also with the help of speech. The unity of perception
> > that
> > > > > has
> > > > > > > > > > developed,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > speech and action, which leads to a re-organization
> > of the
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > signs of
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > visual
> > > > > > > > > > > > > field, also makes up a SUBORDINATE and very IMPORTANT
> > > > > *object
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > of analysis* directed toward the study of the origin
> > of
> > > > > > > > > specifically
> > > > > > > > > > > > > human forms of behavior." (p.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 15 – translated from Russian by Marie J. Hall)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > III - IN THE RUSSIAN VERSION (VOLUME 6):
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "Эти наблюдения наталкивают нас на вывод, что ребенок
> > > > > решает
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > практическую
> > > > > > > > > > > > > задачу не только с помощью глаз и рук, но' и с
> > помощью
> > > > > речи.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Возникшее
> > > > > > > > > > > > > единство восприятия, речи и действия, которое
> > приводит к
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > перестройке
> > > > > > > > > > > > законов
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > зрительного поля, и составляет ПОДЛИННЫЙ  и
> >  ВАЖНЕЙШИЙ
> > > > >  *объект
> > > > > > > > > > анализа*,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > направленного на изучение происхождения специфически
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > человеческих
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > форм
> > > > > > > > > > > > > поведения."
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > ***************************************
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, its ok - (A) ПОДЛИННЫЙ 1.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (не
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > поддельный)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > authentic; genuine; (на копия) original    2.
> > (истинный)
> > > > > true,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > real;
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (B)   2) ВАЖНЕЙШИЙ   1.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > превосх. ст. см. важный 1  2.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > (главный) major, paramount   важнейшая проблема —
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > major problem... It seems that the Readers' version
> > is more
> > > > > > > > > adequate,
> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > not it? Even so I have a doubt about the sources...
> > This
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Russian
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > version
> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > not translated from the English version supposed
> > given for
> > > > > Cole
> > > > > > > by
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Luria,
> > > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > > > > > it? (for instance, because the original manuscripts
> > were
> > > > > lost,
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > something
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > like this?). Somebody can tell me, in addition, if
> > the
> > > > > English
> > > > > > > > > > version of
> > > > > > > > > > > > > the Reader was wrote/provided by Luria himself?
> > Vygotsky
> > > > > and
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Vygotsky
> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote
> > > > > > > > > > > > > originally in Russian, or in English for
> > international
> > > > > > > publication
> > > > > > > > > > > > trying???
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > This things are so clear. Spite the more important is
> > to
> > > > > know
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > "newly
> > > > > > > > > > > > > born unity" is an important "object of analysis" and
> > not
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > exactly a
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > "subordinate an very important"... (its ok). But to
> > know
> > > > > > > something
> > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > > > > > > > translations is useful because the two English
> > versions are
> > > > > not
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > congruent. If this newly born unity was subordinate,
> > what
> > > > > was
> > > > > > > > > > > > > supra-ordinate?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you, very much.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Achills.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > QUER ANEXAR VÁRIAS FOTOS NUM EMAIL? PREPARE-SE PARA O
> > NOVO
> > > > > > > HOTMAIL.
> > > > > > > > > > > > CLIQUE
> > > > > > > > > > > > > AQUI.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/product.aspx/view/1?ocid=Hotmail:Live:Hotmail:Tagline:senDimensao:QUERANEXAR80:-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > > I have on my table a violin string. It is free. I twist
> > one
> > > > > end
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > of it
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > > responds. It is free. But it's not free to do what a
> > violin
> > > > > > > string is
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > supposed to do - to produce music. So I take it, fix it
> > in my
> > > > > > > violin
> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > > tighten it until it is taut. Only then is it free to be
> > a
> > > > > violin
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > string.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > -Sir Rabindranath Tagore
> > > > > > > > > > > >  _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > TRANSFORME SUAS FOTOS EM EMOTICONS PARA O MESSENGER. CLIQUE
> > AQUI
> > > > > PARA
> > > > > > > > > > COMEÇAR.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://ilm.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=ILM:Live:Hotmail:Tagline:senDimensao:TRANSFORME78:-
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > O INTERNET EXPLORER 8 AJUDA VOCÊ A FICAR LONGE DOS VÍRUS.
> > DESCUBRA
> > > > > COMO.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > PREPARE-SE: O SEU HOTMAIL VAI FICAR MELHOR DO QUE NUNCA. CLIQUE E
> > VEJA
> > > > > AS
> > > > > > > NOVIDADES.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/product.aspx/view/1?ocid=Hotmail:Live:Hotmail:Tagline:senDimensao:PREPARE-SE83:-
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > xmca mailing list
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> > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > O INTERNET EXPLORER 8 AJUDA VOCÊ A FICAR LONGE DOS VÍRUS. DESCUBRA
> > COMO.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > O INTERNET EXPLORER 8 DÁ DICAS DE SEGURANÇA PARA VOCÊ SAIBA MAIS!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > TRANSFORME SUAS FOTOS EM EMOTICONS PARA O MESSENGER. CLIQUE AQUI PARA
> > > > > COMEÇAR.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > http://ilm.windowslive.com.br/?ocid=ILM:Live:Hotmail:Tagline:senDimensao:TRANSFORME78:-
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > PREPARE-SE: O SEU HOTMAIL VAI FICAR MELHOR DO QUE NUNCA. CLIQUE E VEJA AS
> > NOVIDADES.
> > >
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> >
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