Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Great to get so much feedback, Achilles. But a lot of time involved too.
AND, core ambiguities seem to remain.
mike

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 4:07 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Yes, Mike, I did.
>
> http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/52332.html
>
> Basically I understood that people there assert that there was no very well
> established semiotics nomenclature at that time. And that LSV concepts can
> not be compared with the current linguistics terms then. But "semicheskii"
> could be a way to scape of the name of strictly lexical approaches,
> non-developmental ones, but this term probably was substituted by "semantic"
> in LSV discourse and/or has an approximated meaning with it, has today
> "semanticheskii analiz", "psikhosemanticheskii analiz". Several other
> interesting considerations are made... Has you can see at that link... I
> really understand that my question remains not about nomenclature but about
> the own actual application of such analysis. I think people there in
> Psyhistorik, in part, agree with me... There are even questions about
> Kharkov's school appropriation of the term, and them I must to read more
> about Kharkov's school... I liked David's considerations too, but LVS did
> not used "semasiological" "INSTEAD" "semantic", but *simultaneously* -
> therefore, perhaps, there was that kind of imprecision in semiotic
> nomenclature in his texts. Even more, in all that book "Thinking and speech"
> we can not find words as "semiotika", "semioticheskii", and so on. I do not
> know when that terms turns current in USRR, maybe Ivanov's book can provide
> some clues about this, but I could not read yet (so many tasks, and so few
> concentrated attention)... Of course, I would like prefer "semiotic
> analysis" if this was possible! Or even "polissemicheskii analiz" in place
> of "semicheskii analiz"! But this is only at my imaginatioin. :-)
>
> Achilles.
>
>
> > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:53:56 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >
> > Hmmm. I kind of liked David's analysis.
> > You should post all this and ask for help on the site that Anton gave us,
> > Achilles.
> > mike
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 9:29 AM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Well, David,
> > >
> > > You are very correct. But perhaps not only about that Vygotsky "likes
> to
> > > use the word "semasiological" INSTEAD of "semantic"". See, this what I
> find
> > > in 1934’s version of “Thinking and speech” to words with “sema_”
> (сема_)...
> > > Search engine can be not 100% because possible OCR incorrections  at
> the
> > > actual source recognition, an so on… But, for a while, I find 42
> entries for
> > > “sema_”… And only 2 entries to “Semasiological”( see “*” in the list
> > > bellow)… Actually: “Funktsiia semasiologicheskaia” (cap. 5 – item XIV ,
> p.
> > > 145) and “semasiologia” (cap. 7, p. 263). I was wrong about the "Z" in
> the
> > > place of "S" only because in Portuguese in "Semasiological" the second
> "s"
> > > sounds like "z" - excuse me. You are correct. The other 40 entries are
> > > related to “semantics”… I could not see more intensively, but seems
> that he
> > > talked about “semanticheskii analiz” only once. “Это изменение смысла
> слова
> > > мы могли установить как основной факт при семантическом анализе речи.”
> (cap.
> > > 6 – p. 305.) “Eto izmenenie smisla slova mi mogli ustanovit’ kak
> osnownoi
> > > fakt pri semanticheskom análise rech”... Something maybe like: “This
> > > alteration of word’s SENSE, [is that] we can stablish as fundamental
> fact in
> > > SEMANTIC analysis of speech”… I don’t know, but seems to be something
> like
> > > this… Then… I could see that “semicheskii analiz” did not appear in
> > > “Thinking and speech”… Well, I capitulate. And I guess that I returned
> to
> > > the starting point: how can we do something like a “semanticheskii
> analiz”?
> > > :-)
> > >
> > >
> > > I - FUNKTSIIA SEMASIOLOGICHESKAIA
> > >
> > > "Сущность подобного перенесения названия в том, что функция,
> выполняемая
> > > здесь словом, не есть ФУНКЦИЯ СЕМАСИОЛОГИЧЕСКАЯ, осмысливающая. Слово
> > > выполняет здесь функцию номинативную, указывающую. Оно указывает,
> называет
> > > вещь. Другими словами, слово является здесь не знаком некоторого
> смысла, с
> > > которым оно связано в акте мышления, а чувственно данной вещи,
> ассоциативно
> > > связанной с другой чувственно воспринимающей вещью. А поскольку
> название
> > > связано с обозначаемой им вещью путем ассоциации, то перенесение
> названия
> > > обычно происходит по разнообразным ассоциациям, реконструировать
> которые
> > > невозможно без точного знания исторической обстановки акта переноса
> > > названия." (cap. 5 - item XIV, p. 145) - Unfortunetly, I do not have
> the
> > > English edition. And chapter 5 is not at marxists.org too...
> > >
> > > II - SEMASIOLOGIA
> > >
> > > "Тот отдел языкознания, который занимается изучением смысловой стороны
> > > речи, т. е. СЕМАСИОЛОГИЯ, усвоив ассоциационную концепцию слова,
> > > рассматривает до сих пор значение слова как ассоциацию между звуковой
> формой
> > > слова и его предметным содержанием." (cap. 7, p. 263) -- There is a
> version
> > > of chapter 7 in marxists.org, but I don´t understand it very well...
> seems
> > > to be something different... I leave the English version with you...
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you very much.
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > >
> > > LIST OF WORD WITH "SEMA_" AT "THINKING AND SPEECH" (1934 version):
> > >
> > >
> > > 01 - (cap. 1 - p 008)... семантической стон языка...
> > > 02 - (cap. 1 - p 008)... классической семантики и фонетик...
> > > 03 - (cap. 1 - p 010)... метод семантического анализа...
> > > * 04 - (cap. 5 - p 145)... функция СЕМАСИОЛОГИЧЕСКАЯ, осмысливающая...
> > > 05 - (cap. 6 - p 178)... всю семантическую сторону...
> > > 06 - (cap. 6 - p 179)... именна семантическая...
> > > 07 - (cap. 6 - p 180)... на семантику родной речи...
> > > 08 - (cap. 6 - p 210)... наконец семантический строй
> > > 09 - (cap. 6 - p 210)... произвольной семантикой стророна...
> > > 10 - (cap. 6 - p 236)... пониятий - семантическая
> > > 11 - (cap. 6 - p 236)... и семантической стороной...
> > > 12 - (cap. 6 - p 236)... и семантической стороны...
> > > 13 - (cap. 6 - p 236)... развивать семантику речи...
> > > 14 - (cap. 7 - p 237)... с семантической стопоны...
> > > * 15 - (cap. 7 - p 263)... е. СЕМАСИОЛОГИЯ, усвоив ассоциационную
> концепцию
> > > слов...
> > > 16 - (cap. 7 - p 263)... значением, семантика не могла...
> > > 17 - (cap. 7 - p 269)... смысловая, семантическая сторона речи и...
> > > 18 - (cap. 7 - p 269)... в семантической и в фазической стороне речи...
> > > 19 - (cap. 7 - p 270)... семантической стопоны речи ребенок начинает с
> > > целого...
> > > 20 - (cap. 7 - p 270)... развитии семантической и фазической стороны
> > > речи...
> > > 21 - (cap. 7 - p 271)... движения семантической и фазической стороны
> > > слова...
> > > 22 - (cap. 7 - p 271)... несовпадение семантической и фазической
> стороны
> > > речи...
> > > 23 - (cap. 7 - p 272)... ударение, семантическая функця...
> > > 24 - (cap. 7 - p 272)... ее семантический строй...
> > > 25 - (cap. 7 - p 272)... в семантике, дахе в римике, метрике и
> мызике...
> > > 26 - (cap. 7 - p 273)... и семантической стороны речи...
> > > 27 - (cap. 7 - p 274)... и семантическая сторона речи не совпадают
> > > 28 - (cap. 7 - p 274)... как семантический синтаксис...
> > > 29 - (cap. 7 - p 274)... не семантику и фонологю не дано сразу...
> > > 30 - (cap. 7 - p 275)... отношение семантической и фазической стороны
> > > речи...
> > > 31 - (cap. 7 - p 275)... в семантической структуре слова...
> > > 32 - (cap. 7 - p 276)... семантический план речи...
> > > 33 - (cap. 7 - p 304)... отнощением семантической...
> > > 34 - (cap. 7 - p 305)... премущественно семантикой, но не фонетикой
> речи
> > > 35 - (cap. 7 - p 305)... своебразном семантическом строе внутренней
> речи...
> > > 36 - (cap. 7 - p 305)... осбенности семантик внутренней речи?...
> > > 37 - (cap. 7 - p 305)... при семантической анализе речи...
> > > 38 - (cap. 7 - p 307)... особенности семантики внутренней речи...
> > > 39 - (cap. 7 - p 308)... особенностей семантики внутренней речи...
> > > 40 - (cap. 7 - p 309)... особый семантический строй...
> > > 41 - (cap. 7 - p 310)... семантики внутренней речи
> > > 42 - (cap. 7 - p 310)... аггютинации семантических ениниц....
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you, David.
> > > Best wishes.
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 15:04:35 +0000
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But, as Bella already said, we can find that Russian contemporary
> > > researchers prefers understand "semicheskii analiz" as "semantic
> analysis".
> > > We find, for istance, Zavershneva (2007): "This term [semicheskii
> analiz]
> > > from L.S. Vygotsky, in contemporary times "peredaetsia" (originate? can
> be
> > > correspondent to?) "semanticheskii" or "psikhosemanticheskii analiz"
> (note 7
> > > - for the article "Way to freedom" (Put' k svobode) = «Этот термин
> > > [семический анализ] Л.С. Выготского в настоящее время передается
> термином
> > > “семантический” или “психосемантический анализ” (примечание 7)» --- Е.
> > > ЗАВЕРШНЕВА «Путь к свободе» (К публикации материалов из семейного
> архива
> > > Л.С. Выготского) Опубликовано в журнале: «НЛО» 2007, №85. Now, I really
> > > would like to know how to do it... Do you think, David, that
> Sakharov's-like
> > > and Shif's-like investigations already answer the question about
> > > "semicheskii analiz" to understand sistemic and semantic (smislovoe)
> > > struture/building (stroenie) of consciousness???
> > > >
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > > Achilles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > From: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > > > Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2010 14:37:36 +0000
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you, very much, David,
> > > > >
> > > > > I understand, It's very interesting your approach... But you said
> that
> > > "Vygotsky likes to use the word "semasiological"" - then what was the
> > > Russian Vygotsky's term for "semasiological"? This was something that
> > > Vygotsky liked to use, or the English translators liked to use? I will
> see
> > > chapter 5 soon - the letters I have only in English, not in Russian
> yet, but
> > > I will see if there is something in Google about the letters in Russian
> too.
> > > I never read chapter 5 with this questions in mind before, in
> Portuguese
> > > translations I guess that "semasiological" is not so common until
> now... We
> > > have sometimes "semiotic" for "semicheskii" in the text "The problem of
> > > consciousness" as I said before, but "semicheskii" seem to work with
> the
> > > radical "sem_" very close to "sema" - the vocal must normally falls to
> > > construct the adjetive; of course this word "sema" have something to
> see
> > > with "sign", in my opinion... (Greek "σημεῖον" – semeion") - spite
> "sema" is
> > > currently associated with linguistic sign, not to all semiotic process,
> then
> > > I don't know, because Vygotsky at "The problem of consciousness" was
> > > actually talking about "words" too... not about all kind of signs, I
> > > wonder... But "semicheskii" was closer to "semic"... I don't find,
> right
> > > now, dictionaries and or Google entries to "semaziologuícheskii"
> > > (семазиологический) - nor something like this... But I have to see
> better.
> > > Then I will see my chapter 5 again, and maybe confront with 1934's
> Russian.
> > > To my opinion "semiotic" is broader than  "semantic" (if you consider
> > > Charles Morris' terms: semantics, pragmatics, syntax  - as tree kinds
> of
> > > semiotic relations: i.e. all that is semantic is semiotic, but not all
> that
> > > is semiotic is semantic)... I don't know about "semasiological"...
> Perhaps
> > > "semiotic" or "semasiological" could have something to see with the
> problem
> > > about distinction and/or similarity "semiotics x semiology"? I guess
> all
> > > this will be not our major problem here, of course... But as all you
> know
> > > better than I: "words , words, words" (...) "the rest is silence" :-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Best.
> > > > >
> > > > > Achilles.
> > > > >
> > > > > (off topic: Andy, don´t worry, I'm work at the "Teaching about
> > > emotions" right now, too. It's walking...)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 19:11:37 -0800
> > > > > > From: vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Achilles:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A couple of years ago I noticed that Vygosky likes to use the
> word
> > > "semasiological" instead of "semantic" (see, just as examples,  page
> 154 of
> > > Vol 1, Chapter Five of Thinking and Speech", and also Vygotsky's letter
> to
> > > Luria in 1931 about the work of Gelb and Goldstein, p. 40 of the
> Journal of
> > > Russian and Eastern European Psychology, 45 (2), among other places.) I
> > > wondered why.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think I know the answer, and I think it might be relevant to
> your
> > > question. In Vygotsky's day there was something of a conflict between a
> > > school of semantics called "semasiology" and one called "onomasiology".
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Briefly stated, the semasiologists were interested in WORDS. They
> > > isolated them and then considered the many meanings they could have.
> The
> > > onomasiologists were interested in CONCEPTS. They isolated a concept
> and
> > > then considered the various realizations it could have (as an exchange,
> an
> > > utterance, a phrase, and finally a word).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For this reason, the onomasiologists became extremely interested
> in
> > > the NAMING function, because that was really the end point of their
> analysis
> > > (they went from thinking to speech) while the semasiologists were more
> > > interested in the SIGNIFYING function, because naming was really just
> one
> > > part of a much larger process of abstraction that runs from speech to
> > > thinking.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > When we really look at EXAMPLES of a "semantic" analysis in
> Vygotsky
> > > we see that they are almost never onomasiological; they are always
> intent on
> > > how a single word-meaning unit develops over time. So Chapter Five is
> > > neither a semiotic nor a semic nor a semantic analysis; it's really a
> > > semasiological one.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > David Kellogg
> > > > > > Seoul National University of Education
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Sun, 2/7/10, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 12:30 PM
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you, very much, Bella,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Unfortunately I will could not stay in Portugal in June. Of
> course,
> > > it would be wonderful stay there and meet and listen to so interesting
> and
> > > important scholars, researchers. I will encourage my colleagues here to
> go
> > > to the Conference.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best wishes.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:20:34 +0200
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > > > > > From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Achilles, I think that it that "semantic"
> > > > > > > is a correct (good enough) translation because it means
> analysis of
> > > meaning
> > > > > > > and this is semantoc analysis.
> > > > > > > Will you come to Portugal conference in June?
> > > > > > > Bella Kotik
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Anton Yasnitsky <
> > > the_yasya@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why don't you try to ask the guys @ psyhistorik --
> > > > > > > > http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/profile ?
> > > > > > > > Perhaps somebody will be able to answer your question there
> ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > AY
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > >  Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 6:41:33 AM
> > > > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you, Mike.
> > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:34:01 -0800
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic
> analysis"?
> > > > > > > > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > CC: borlogic@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Achilles. I do not know the answer to your question. Lets
> see
> > > what our
> > > > > > > > > native
> > > > > > > > > Russian speakers can tell us.
> > > > > > > > > mike
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > > > > > > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi, XMCA,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around
> > > 1932-33-34, there
> > > > > > > > was an
> > > > > > > > > > interesting claim from him about methodological problem
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > > analysis:
> > > > > > > > > > "Семический
> > > > > > > > > > анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения
> системного
> > > и
> > > > > > > > смыслового
> > > > > > > > > > строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii]
> analysis
> > > is the
> > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > > > > adequate method for the study of the systemic and
> [smyslovoe]
> > > > > > > >  structure [or
> > > > > > > > > > construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness - Well, in
> my
> > > Portuguese
> > > > > > > > > > version I have a great problem not exactly because
> "stroenie"
> > > > > > > > translation as
> > > > > > > > > > "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but
> mainly
> > > with
> > > > > > > > > > "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and
> > > Vygotsky's word was
> > > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > > "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same
> > > "semitcheskii" has
> > > > > > > > > > "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too,
> because
> > > "smyslovoe"
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there
> is
> > > "semantika"
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present
> time. I
> > > don't know
> > > > > > > > > > about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as
> > > "semiotics",
> > > > > > > > > > "semantics", and so on, at that time...  How can we
> better
> > > translate
> > > > > > > > > > "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what
> > > methodological
> > > > > > > > means
> > > > > > > > > > did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important
> > > analysis, at
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed
> with
> > > the term
> > > > > > > > > > "semicheskii analiz" - "the only adequate method for the
> > > study of the
> > > > > > > > > > systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe]  "construction"
> > > [stroenie] of
> > > > > > > > > > consciousness"... The only title in Russian around this
> > > matter that in
> > > > > > > > find
> > > > > > > > > > in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В.
> (1935).
> > > > > > > > Семический
> > > > > > > > > > анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник
> > > исследований
> > > > > > > > > > харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like
> > > Asnin, V.I &
> > > > > > > > > > Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of
> linguistic
> > > (?)
> > > > > > > > meanings,
> > > > > > > > > > adopted in school. Collection of investigations of
> Kharkov's
> > > group.
> > > > > > > > ---> but
> > > > > > > > > > this was not published... Can I suppose that not only
> > > Vygotsky believed
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some
> people
> > > apply it in
> > > > > > > > > > empirical research?  Ow, sure... I can found many entries
> to
> > > "semic
> > > > > > > > > > analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to
> be
> > > no much in
> > > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > "genetic" approach... then I am very limited in choice an
> > > adequate
> > > > > > > > > > translation, and even more limited in understand the
> actual
> > > concept...
> > > > > > > > > > "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic
> > > analysis"(?) -
> > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Thank you for your help, one more time.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > No Messenger você pode tranformar sua imagem de exibição
> num
> > > vídeo.
> > > > > > > > Veja
> > > > > > > > > > aqui!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
> http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/97?product=2&ocid=WindowsLive:Dicas-ImagemDinamica:Hotmail:Tagline:1x1:Mexa-se
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> _________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > >  __________________________________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Yahoo! Canada Toolbar: Search from anywhere on the web, and
> > > bookmark your
> > > > > > > > favourite sites. Download it now
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > xmca mailing list
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> > > > > > Quer deixar seus vídeos mais divertidos? Com o Movie Maker isso
> fica
> > > fácil.
> > > > > >
> > >
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> > > > > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > xmca mailing list
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> > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > > No Messenger você pode tranformar sua imagem de exibição num vídeo.
> > > Veja aqui!
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/97?product=2&ocid=WindowsLive:Dicas- Imagem Dinamica:Hotmail:Tagline:1x1:Mexa-se
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > > No Messenger você pode tranformar sua imagem de exibição num vídeo.
> Veja
> > > aqui!
> > > >
> > >
> http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/97?product=2&ocid=WindowsLive:Dicas- Imagem Dinamica:Hotmail:Tagline:1x1:Mexa-se
> > >
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