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RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?

Thank you, very much, Bella,

Unfortunately I will could not stay in Portugal in June. Of course, it would be wonderful stay there and meet and listen to so interesting and important scholars, researchers. I will encourage my colleagues here to go to the Conference.

Best wishes.

Achilles.


> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 21:20:34 +0200
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> From: bella.kotik@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> 
> Achilles, I think that it that "semantic"
> is a correct (good enough) translation because it means analysis of meaning
> and this is semantoc analysis.
> Will you come to Portugal conference in June?
> Bella Kotik
> 
> 
> On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> > Why don't you try to ask the guys @ psyhistorik --
> > http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/profile ?
> > Perhaps somebody will be able to answer your question there ...
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >  Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 6:41:33 AM
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> >
> >
> > Thank you, Mike.
> > Achilles.
> >
> > > Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:34:01 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > CC: borlogic@yahoo.com
> > >
> > > Achilles. I do not know the answer to your question. Lets see what our
> > > native
> > > Russian speakers can tell us.
> > > mike
> > >
> > > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi, XMCA,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there
> > was an
> > > > interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the
> > analysis:
> > > > "Семический
> > > > анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и
> > смыслового
> > > > строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the
> > only
> > > > adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe]
> >  structure [or
> > > > construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness - Well, in my Portuguese
> > > > version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie"
> > translation as
> > > > "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with
> > > > "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was
> > not
> > > > "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has
> > > > "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe"
> > in
> > > > Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika"
> > and
> > > > "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know
> > > > about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics",
> > > > "semantics", and so on, at that time...  How can we better translate
> > > > "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological
> > means
> > > > did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at
> > that
> > > > times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term
> > > > "semicheskii analiz" - "the only adequate method for the study of the
> > > > systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe]  "construction" [stroenie] of
> > > > consciousness"... The only title in Russian around this matter that in
> > find
> > > > in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935).
> > Семический
> > > > анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований
> > > > харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I &
> > > > Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?)
> > meanings,
> > > > adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group.
> > ---> but
> > > > this was not published... Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed
> > that
> > > > "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in
> > > > empirical research?  Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic
> > > > analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in
> > a
> > > > "genetic" approach... then I am very limited in choice an adequate
> > > > translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept...
> > > > "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) -
> > this
> > > > was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you for your help, one more time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Achilles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _________________________________________________________________
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> > Veja
> > > > aqui!
> > > >
> > > >
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
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