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Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?

Achilles, I think that it that "semantic"
is a correct (good enough) translation because it means analysis of meaning
and this is semantoc analysis.
Will you come to Portugal conference in June?
Bella Kotik


On Sun, Feb 7, 2010 at 8:34 PM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Why don't you try to ask the guys @ psyhistorik --
> http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/profile ?
> Perhaps somebody will be able to answer your question there ...
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>  Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 6:41:33 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
>
>
> Thank you, Mike.
> Achilles.
>
> > Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:34:01 -0800
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > CC: borlogic@yahoo.com
> >
> > Achilles. I do not know the answer to your question. Lets see what our
> > native
> > Russian speakers can tell us.
> > mike
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Hi, XMCA,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there
> was an
> > > interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the
> analysis:
> > > "Семический
> > > анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и
> смыслового
> > > строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the
> only
> > > adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe]
>  structure [or
> > > construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness - Well, in my Portuguese
> > > version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie"
> translation as
> > > "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with
> > > "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was
> not
> > > "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has
> > > "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe"
> in
> > > Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika"
> and
> > > "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know
> > > about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics",
> > > "semantics", and so on, at that time...  How can we better translate
> > > "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological
> means
> > > did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at
> that
> > > times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term
> > > "semicheskii analiz" - "the only adequate method for the study of the
> > > systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe]  "construction" [stroenie] of
> > > consciousness"... The only title in Russian around this matter that in
> find
> > > in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935).
> Семический
> > > анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований
> > > харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I &
> > > Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?)
> meanings,
> > > adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group.
> ---> but
> > > this was not published... Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed
> that
> > > "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in
> > > empirical research?  Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic
> > > analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in
> a
> > > "genetic" approach... then I am very limited in choice an adequate
> > > translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept...
> > > "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) -
> this
> > > was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for your help, one more time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Achilles.
> > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > No Messenger você pode tranformar sua imagem de exibição num vídeo.
> Veja
> > > aqui!
> > >
> > >
> http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/97?product=2&ocid=WindowsLive:Dicas- Imagem Dinamica:Hotmail:Tagline:1x1:Mexa-se
> > >
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-- 
Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
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