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Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?

Why don't you try to ask the guys @ psyhistorik -- 
http://community.livejournal.com/psyhistorik/profile ? 
Perhaps somebody will be able to answer your question there ...

AY



----- Original Message ----
From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 6:41:33 AM
Subject: RE: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?


Thank you, Mike.
Achilles.

> Date: Sat, 6 Feb 2010 21:34:01 -0800
> Subject: Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?
> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> CC: borlogic@yahoo.com
> 
> Achilles. I do not know the answer to your question. Lets see what our
> native
> Russian speakers can tell us.
> mike
> 
> On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hi, XMCA,
> >
> >
> >
> > Please,
> >
> >
> >
> > In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there was an
> > interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the analysis:
> > "Семический
> > анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и смыслового
> > строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the only
> > adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe]  structure [or
> > construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness - Well, in my Portuguese
> > version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie" translation as
> > "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with
> > "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was not
> > "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has
> > "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe" in
> > Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika" and
> > "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know
> > about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics",
> > "semantics", and so on, at that time...  How can we better translate
> > "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological means
> > did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at that
> > times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term
> > "semicheskii analiz" - "the only adequate method for the study of the
> > systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe]  "construction" [stroenie] of
> > consciousness"... The only title in Russian around this matter that in find
> > in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935). Семический
> > анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований
> > харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I &
> > Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?) meanings,
> > adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group. ---> but
> > this was not published... Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed that
> > "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in
> > empirical research?  Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic
> > analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in a
> > "genetic" approach... then I am very limited in choice an adequate
> > translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept...
> > "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) - this
> > was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your help, one more time.
> >
> >
> >
> > Achilles.
> >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > No Messenger você pode tranformar sua imagem de exibição num vídeo. Veja
> > aqui!
> >
> > http://www.windowslive.com.br/public/tip.aspx/view/97?product=2&ocid=WindowsLive:Dicas - Imagem Dinamica:Hotmail:Tagline:1x1:Mexa-se
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca 
> >
> >
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