Re: [xmca] "Semiotic analysis" or "Semic analysis"?

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Achilles. I do not know the answer to your question. Lets see what our
native
Russian speakers can tell us.
mike

On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 7:16 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi, XMCA,
>
>
>
> Please,
>
>
>
> In some inner meetings of Vygotsky's group, around 1932-33-34, there was an
> interesting claim from him about methodological problem of the analysis:
> "Семический
> анализ есть единственный адекватный метод изучения системного и смыслового
> строения сознания" = something like: "[Semicheskii] analysis is the only
> adequate method for the study of the systemic and [smyslovoe]  structure [or
> construction (?) = stroenie]" of consciousness - Well, in my Portuguese
> version I have a great problem not exactly because "stroenie" translation as
> "structure" - spite the word is not "struktura" - but mainly with
> "semicheskii" that was translated as "semiotic" and Vygotsky's word was not
> "semioticheskii" - French version translate the same "semitcheskii" has
> "sémantique" - but this is not so comfortable too, because "smyslovoe" in
> Portuguese was transformed in "semantic" too. But there is "semantika" and
> "semanticheskii" in Russian too, at least in present time. I don't know
> about actual familiarity of Vygotsky with terms such as "semiotics",
> "semantics", and so on, at that time...  How can we better translate
> "semicheskii analiz" today? Or, even better: by what methodological means
> did somebody actually proceed that kind of so important analysis, at that
> times? To what methodology Vygotsky concretely refereed with the term
> "semicheskii analiz" - "the only adequate method for the study of the
> systemic and "semantic" [smyslovoe]  "construction" [stroenie] of
> consciousness"... The only title in Russian around this matter that in find
> in Google search was: Аснин, В. И. & Запорожец, А. В. (1935). Семический
> анализ языковых значений, усвоенных в школе. Сборник исследований
> харьковской группы; не был опубликован - something like Asnin, V.I &
> Zaporozhets, A.V. (1935) Semicheskii analysis of linguistic (?) meanings,
> adopted in school. Collection of investigations of Kharkov's group. ---> but
> this was not published... Can I suppose that not only Vygotsky believed that
> "semicheskii analysis" was important, but even some people apply it in
> empirical research?  Ow, sure... I can found many entries to "semic
> analysis" in contemporary semiotic studies, but seems to be no much in a
> "genetic" approach... then I am very limited in choice an adequate
> translation, and even more limited in understand the actual concept...
> "semiotic analysis"(?), "analyse sémantique"(?), "semic analysis"(?) - this
> was not any kind of "concept formation" study, was it?
>
>
>
> Thank you for your help, one more time.
>
>
>
> Achilles.
>
>
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