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Re: [xmca] Readung Piaget again...
Hi Larry, Carol,
I was recently reading a study by students of Eliot Turiel with poor kids in Colombia. The researchers were keen to demonstrate that moral conceptions - 'thou shalt not steal' - are universal. They were satisfied that they had done so - but they couldn't quite make sense of the fact that so many of the kids they interviewed viewed revenge as morally justified. Adolescents even more than younger kids.
It seems to me that what they probably stumbled in to is a morality of honor - much as Dick Nisbett has described in the southern USA. And what Piaget's approach (all 3 approaches, in fact!) seems not to allow for is different kinds of morality, moralities plural, that vary with social context. Turiel's too.
Martin
By the way, Bruno Latour is giving the Gifford Lectures as Edinburgh University:
<http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/humanities-soc-sci/news-events/lectures/gifford-lectures/series-2012-2013>
On Feb 17, 2013, at 12:13 PM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
> Carol again:
>
> Sorry I am not talking about moral development--I thought folk would like
> to know more about Piaget.
>
> Here goes....
>
> Reply on Piaget and the social
>
>
>
> RK Kitchener On the Concept(s) of the Social in Piaget
>
> In: *The Cambridge Companion to Piaget* (2009) Eds U. Műller, J.I.
> Carpendale & L. Smith. New York: Cambridge University Press. Ch.5 pp.
> 110-131.
>
>
> There exist three possible critiques of Piaget’s theory of the social:
>
> 1. 1. Piaget has no theory of the social contribution to thinking..
>
> 2. 2. He has such a theory but is inadequate because his theory is
> impoverished and inadequately stresses the social
>
> 3. He may have a sufficiently complex theory of the social, but it is
> a false or mistaken one.
>
> Kitchener says that you are only in a position to comment on the above if
> they have read *Sociological Studies* (Piaget 1977/95). These common
> criticisms which people espouse without reading SS render [1] above invalid.
>
> Piaget has three theories:
>
>
> 1. An early social epistemology, in which the social played a crucial
> epistemic role.
>
> 2. A double aspect view, in which there is a single underlying state of
> equilibrium manifested in several different areas.
>
> 3. An internal rationalist account in which any external influence, social
> or otherwise, is dependent upon a purely individualist cognitive mechanisms.
>
>
> Piaget uses all three, and seems to hold them at the same time. Kitchener
> says the 1st one is defensible, and the other two would need substantial
> revisions.
>
>
> For Piaget, early thought is essentially egocentric. Young children are not
> able to contest what another thinks, particularly because they are not able
> to defend their statement or beliefs. There is simply a conjunction of
> statements.
>
> Later :
>
> [..]Only under the pressure of argument and opposition will he seek to
> justify himself in the eyes of others, and thus acquires of watching
> himself think, i.e. of constantly detecting the motives which are guiding
> him in the direction where he is going.
>
>
> Piaget says the child must understand the difference between her point of
> view and that of others, hence becoming aware of different epistemic points
> of view.
>
>
> Piaget only addresses propositional knowledge *that*: social interaction is
> essential for the development of such cognitive development. Without
> social interaction, the epistemic subject will not see the need for
> justification. Justifications are always justifications given to others, a
> social concept belonging to a group of other social concepts:
> responsibility, excuses, blame etc.
>
> This notion does not apply to the sensory-motor knowledge (practical
> rationality).
>
>
> Piaget sees cognitive and practical rationality as aligned – they both
> refer to his theory of groupings.
>
>
> [I am not going into the others two positions: the Spinozist double action
> account, nor structural isomorphism.]
>
>
> [CM]
>
> Elsewhere, Von Glasersfeld holds the position that Piaget is the clearest
> exponent of individual constructivism. Having described this at length, he
> then goes on to explain the development of accurate meanings (earlier than
> Piaget) in language as dependent on children try to communicate. If the
> other doesn't understand, then the meaning of the word must be internally
> negotiated.]
>
>
> For Piaget this negotiation of meaning only occurs at the stage of
> Concrete and Formal Operations. So he and Von Glasersfeld different in
> their views of concept of negotiation: negotiation of word meaning, etc.,
> versus the negotiation of beliefs..
>
>
> This is Piaget’s earlier position, and he held onto it over time, albeit in
> a subdued form.
>
>
> (p.124) Kitchener goes on to the differences, between reasoning and
> logic, and says while Piaget is interested in reasoning, so he sometimes
> write in a misleading way about the theory of logic. Kitchener points out
> that a theory of logic has to be more than a syntactic base: instead it
> must include semantics and pragmatics.
>
>
> Kitchener offers a theory of symmetry, in which both rational and
> irrational beliefs and belief change are to be explained by the same set
> of underlying causal principles. For Kitchener he feels his (as yet not
> completed) theory that norms are just complex kinds of causal relations.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> [CM]
>
> The post- Piaget position of equilibration, actually requires the concept
> of social negotiation. One paper (sorry no reference at this point) on
> alternative conceptions in science teaching, imply psychological and
> interactive learning. Simply put, students have a vested interest in
> maintaining their alternative (i.e. wrong) conceptions. After learning a
> concept from a teacher, they quickly revert to their own concepts. An
> elegant solutions is to get students to write down their conceptions, e.g.
> of Boyle’s Law, and then tuck this view into their desks. They then go
> through a process of the teacher setting up cognitive conflicts for them
> while learning and acting on Boyle’s law. Negotiation takes place with the
> teacher and the other students until they have a clear understanding. The
> important point is that the students are able to tuck away their
> misconceptions quite literally, knowing they can come back to them when the
> teaching is over. What happens instead is that they need not go back to
> them, as they did not intrude on the teaching learning process and they
> develop accurate concepts.
>
>
> This speaks to the negotiation of beliefs, but beliefs which are very
> resistant to change.
>
>
> Interestingly this approach to equilibration is not addressed in this book:
> rather Boom confines himself to the orthodox theory of reflective
> abstraction and changes between stages.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Carol
>
>
> PS If you want this in Word format than I can send it to you.
>
>
>
> On 17 February 2013 12:40, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Larry
>>
>> I am busy reading the latest authoritative account of Piaget (2009). I
>> will have to present that before going back to Furth Later today GMT+2
>> here. 12:40
>>
>>
>> On 17 February 2013 06:05, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Martin, Carol
>>>
>>> I was curious if there would be further conversation in response to the
>>> Furth and Youniss article on a Piagetian model of development
>>> within stages.
>>>
>>> I had a question while reading page 131 on the development of moral
>>> consciousness *in the wild*. The wild in this case was adolescents working
>>> in a homeless shelter as a component of their FORMAL religion class on
>>> Christian social justice.
>>>
>>> Youniss believed his assessment of this particular CASE of moral
>>> development was capturing and validating Piaget's stage theory of moral
>>> development WITHIN social formations of moral thinking. Youniss, following
>>> the students for an entire year was able to *observe* the students raising
>>> questions which are central KEY components of developing a mature and
>>> responsible morality. Youniss *observed* that students INTERactive
>>> discussions were not linear expressions of either conservative or liberal
>>> moral perspectives. Youniss found no overall bias towards either liberal
>>> or
>>> conservative stances. but rather the students were observed to be engaged
>>> towards reconciling these differing positions.
>>> The example given, of black teenage mothers who OUGHT to either go to
>>> school in order to BECOME self-sufficient or go to work to earn enough
>>> money to self sufficiently take care of their children and not depend on
>>> public support.
>>>
>>> Youniss seems to be framing his *general* stage theory within particular
>>> Christian notions of *development*. Yes, he is exploring interaction and
>>> differing perspectives [*oughts*] but within a particular Christian model
>>> of *self-sufficiency* which presupposes that development has a trajectory
>>> towards *self* differentiation as a *developing* ability or capacity.
>>>
>>> My question is if this stage model is actually a particular *genre* or
>>> *tradition* which presupposes our canonical notions of psychology as
>>> self-development. Yes, within a social mileau of dialogue with others BUT
>>> within a particular *genre* with biased prejudices and assumptions of a
>>> particular trajectory towards self development. In other words a
>>> particular
>>> STYLE or TYPE of psychological discourse within the genre of *psy*
>>> discourses.
>>> I am not questioning the moral values expressed or that these values
>>> develop within social interaction. However, the historical aspect of
>>> development WITHIN particular styles or genres.
>>> [in particular the *psy* genre of selves as developing towards self
>>> sufficiency is not a universal story or narrative or genre.]
>>>
>>> There are multiple, plural forms of discourse now developing which are
>>> *deeply* dialogical all the way down. To be human within these developing
>>> *deeply* dialogical genres is to understand human nature as always
>>> addressing the other. Face to face conversation within communicative
>>> structures is the paradigm model. However dialogical thinking, dialogical
>>> writing as texts, prelinguistic and extralinguistic ways of being
>>> addrressed by the other [alterity] develop within this alternative genre
>>> of discourse. Psychology as a discourse also becomes TRANSlated into a
>>> different genre.
>>>
>>> I am not sure if these reflections need to be TRANSlated into cultural
>>> historical traditions of discourse. However, the question of what TYPE or
>>> genre of development [and the biases implicit within *general* stage
>>> models] I believe develop further clarity within historical genres of
>>> development.
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 10:41 AM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh excuse me, I only saw the attachment after I sent the message.
>>> Thanks
>>>> Martin. Will read this.
>>>> Carol
>>>>
>>>> On 14 February 2013 20:40, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you got access to that on our behalf--I say this because Furth
>>>> is/was
>>>>> a good exponent of classical Piaget. (Late Piaget is different and
>>>>> exceptionally difficult.)
>>>>>
>>>>> Look forward to it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Carol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 14 February 2013 20:20, Martin Packer <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There's also this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Furth, H. G., & Youniss, J. (2000). Reflections on Piaget's
>>> sociological
>>>>>> studies. New Ideas in Psychology, 18(2-3), 121-133.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 14, 2013, at 1:14 PM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mike,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Piaget wrote a book called "Six sociological studies" which was
>>> only
>>>>>>> available in French for many years. I am going to look for
>>>>>> information, as
>>>>>>> my copy was stolen. For him, "sociological' was roughly the same
>>> as
>>>>>>> "social".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Will get back to you.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Carol
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 14 February 2013 19:30, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I agree with Armando. Among other things, that document about
>>> event
>>>>>>>> planning provides an interesting
>>>>>>>> start on analyzing certain generalizable categories relevant to
>>> the
>>>>>>>> division of labor and its dynamics.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> People are responding to my original question about "what is an
>>>> event"
>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> terms of different discourses
>>>>>>>> focused on different levels of scale, in the chat sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sewell and Sahlins are concerned with events at the level of
>>>> memorable
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> memorialized history
>>>>>>>> events in discussion issues of agency and structure at the
>>> cultural
>>>>>>>> historical level.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cultural-mediational psychologists and other ontogeny-oriented
>>> folks
>>>>>> look
>>>>>>>> at socially defined events
>>>>>>>> of long standing such as birthdays and innaugurations wars, etc.
>>> This
>>>>>>>> branches into the branches that Greg has pointed to in sociology,
>>>>>> symbolic
>>>>>>>> interactionisn, cultural studies. And it branched "down" into
>>>>>> developmental
>>>>>>>> psychology using notions such as event schemas/scripts.....
>>> secondary
>>>>>>>> artifacts in Wartofskian terms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sure have a pile of reading to do! Serves me right wondering
>>> what
>>>>>> events
>>>>>>>> have to do with communication. :-)
>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 6:47 AM, Justo, Armando <
>>> ArmandoJ@iadb.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Carol,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> That is a very interesting question and I personally think that
>>> CHAT
>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>> great for the analysis. These behaviors represent historical
>>>> accepted
>>>>>>>> forms
>>>>>>>>> of activity for these positions that establish the "norms"
>>>> applicable
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> its incumbents. The credentialization movement is grounded in
>>> these
>>>>>> type
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>> approaches.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> One possibility could be the analysis of use value and exchange
>>>> value
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>> see how individuals use this set of behaviors to develop and to
>>>> foster
>>>>>>>>> their employability, and how organizations use the same
>>> behaviors to
>>>>>>>> define
>>>>>>>>> the rules for the activity. Sawchuk (2003) does a very
>>> interesting
>>>>>>>> analysis
>>>>>>>>> of this type for the functions of a university professor.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Another performative lens would help incumbents to see these
>>>> examples
>>>>>> as
>>>>>>>>> developmental possibilities "to be both who they are and who they
>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> becoming" (Holzman, 2009).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I hope this helps!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Armando
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Carol Macdonald [mailto:carolmacdon@gmail.com]
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2013 04:55 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Re: Events: Assistance requested
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Armando,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is obviously a correct and comprehensive account. I do,
>>>> however,
>>>>>>>>> wonder how Mike is going to conceptualise that in CHAT!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Carol
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 13 February 2013 21:07, Justo, Armando <ArmandoJ@iadb.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dear Mike,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Years ago I conducted the profiling of technical competencies
>>> for
>>>> one
>>>>>>>>>> organization that has the position of "event planners". Their
>>> job
>>>>>>>>>> encompassed four key areas: (i) knowledge of norms and
>>> regulations,
>>>>>>>> (ii)
>>>>>>>>>> events management , (iii) contract services management, and (i)
>>>>>> budget
>>>>>>>>>> management.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Below are the responsibilities of this position. I hope it
>>> helps,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Armando Justo
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ________
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Event Planning and Production includes staff who are responsible
>>>> for
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> organization, coordination and execution of various events.
>>> Their
>>>>>>>>>> responsibilities encompass the coordination and supervision of
>>> all
>>>>>>>>>> protocol, ceremonial, and logistic aspects of these events
>>> applying
>>>>>>>>>> appropriate norms and regulations.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (i) Norms and Regulations
>>>>>>>>>> . Defines logistical and physical event requirements, making
>>>>>>>>>> recommendations based on client needs, cost benefits and
>>> protocol
>>>>>>>>> standards.
>>>>>>>>>> . Defines event strategies and establishes order of precedence
>>>> based
>>>>>> on
>>>>>>>>>> analysis of agenda, list of attendees and cultural
>>> sensitivities.
>>>>>>>>>> . Guides staff on protocol matters, both written and procedural,
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>> guest
>>>>>>>>>> criteria.
>>>>>>>>>> . Conducts quality control, evaluating the performance and
>>> quality
>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>> services provided by vendors and facilities.
>>>>>>>>>> . Drafts recommendations for implementation of new protocol
>>> norms
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> procedures, based on identification of best market practices.
>>>>>>>>>> . Provides guidance on application of proper protocol procedures
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> official events.
>>>>>>>>>> . Anticipates potential complex and/or high visibility protocol
>>>>>> issues,
>>>>>>>>>> using sound judgment to identify and implement corrective
>>>> solutions.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (ii) Events Management
>>>>>>>>>> . Advises involved players on logistical and protocol concerns
>>> and
>>>>>>>> needs,
>>>>>>>>>> providing strategic information regarding participant
>>> requirements
>>>>>>>> and/or
>>>>>>>>>> agenda issues.
>>>>>>>>>> . Initiates and coordinates corrective measures in response to
>>>> issues
>>>>>>>>>> identified regarding the planning and execution of events.
>>>>>>>>>> . Conducts quality assurance for processing and approval of
>>>> required
>>>>>>>>>> documentation, ensuring that requests for all necessary
>>> equipment
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> logistical requirements are complete and accurate.
>>>>>>>>>> . Defines critical success factors to be considered for
>>> execution
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> evaluation of event management.
>>>>>>>>>> . Defines criteria for identification of new facilities and
>>>>>> resources,
>>>>>>>>>> guiding staff in assessing factors to be considered, ensuring
>>>>>>>> compliance
>>>>>>>>>> with established procedures and maximization of financial
>>>> resources.
>>>>>>>>>> . Guides staff, providing information and answering inquiries on
>>>> best
>>>>>>>>>> utilization of available resources and/or need for additional
>>>>>>>> resources.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (iii) Contract Services Management
>>>>>>>>>> . Monitors work performed by consultants and contractors,
>>> ensuring
>>>>>>>>>> satisfactory delivery of services in compliance with contract
>>>>>>>>>> specifications and schedules, identifying any corrective actions
>>>>>>>>> necessary.
>>>>>>>>>> . Develop contractual agreements that maximize protection and
>>> value
>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> the organization, and meet the business requirements.
>>>>>>>>>> . Negotiates and/or renegotiates contract terms and conditions,
>>>>>>>> ensuring
>>>>>>>>>> best cost value while maintaining quality of service.
>>>>>>>>>> . Educates external providers on conference or audio-visual
>>> norms
>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> guidelines, monitoring their work to ensure successful event
>>>>>>>> organization
>>>>>>>>>> and/or services consistent with internal standards and
>>> procedures.
>>>>>>>>>> . Develops work programs and schedules according to upcoming
>>> event
>>>>>>>>>> requirements, and analysis of specific needs, optimizing the
>>> use of
>>>>>>>>>> financial and human resources.
>>>>>>>>>> . Establishes contract requirements, applying knowledge of
>>> market
>>>>>>>>>> conditions in the selection and hiring of consultants and
>>> service
>>>>>>>>> providers.
>>>>>>>>>> . In conjunction with the legal department, identifies legal
>>>>>>>> implications
>>>>>>>>>> of user or vendor requests, to reduce potential liability to the
>>>>>>>>>> organization.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> (iv) Budget Administration
>>>>>>>>>> . Analyzes and determines needed budget for events maximizing
>>> cost
>>>>>>>>> savings
>>>>>>>>>> and efficiency.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>>>> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>>>> Behalf Of "Engeström, Yrjö H M"
>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:34 PM
>>>>>>>>>> To: lchcmike@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Re: Events: Assistance requested
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> MIke, the historian/historical sociologist William H. Sewell,
>>> Jr.
>>>> has
>>>>>>>>>> built much of his theory of history on the concept of event. See
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> example:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Sewell, W. H., Jr. (1996). Historical events as
>>> transformations of
>>>>>>>>>> structures: Inventing revolution at the Bastille. Theory and
>>>> Soecity,
>>>>>>>>>> 25(6), 841-881.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Sewell, W. H., Jr. (1996). Three temporalities: Toward and
>>>> eventful
>>>>>>>>>> sociology. In T. J. McDonald (Ed.), The historic turn in the
>>> human
>>>>>>>>>> sciences. University of Michigan Press.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yrjö
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:26 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> This is all very helpful. I recommend that stanford
>>> encyclopedia
>>>>>>>> entry
>>>>>>>>>>> for a way to think about the span of levels and range of
>>> phenomena
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> which we apply the term, event.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Note that in Pepper's "world hypotheses" view, "the event" is
>>> the
>>>>>>>> unit
>>>>>>>>>>> of analysis of contextualism.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> hmmmm
>>>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:40 AM, Helena Worthen <
>>>>>>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Mike-
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> One form of "event planning," which I assume includes
>>> everything
>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>>>> kid's birthday parties to a ride at Disneyland to political
>>>>>>>>>>>> conventions, is theater production. From the job description
>>>> point
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>> view, the person listed as "producer" for a play is
>>> responsible
>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> everything from raising the money, writing the budget,
>>> choosing
>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> play and publicizing it, hiring the director and other
>>> technical
>>>>>>>>>>>> staff and shaping how it is interpreted by the media and
>>> finally
>>>>>>>>>>>> deciding when it closes and paying off (or apologizing) to the
>>>>>>>>>>>> investors. As Jim Mackenzie, who was Producer at ACT in San
>>>>>>>> Francisco
>>>>>>>>>>>> once said, "Sometimes all you have to do is say 'Let's do it'
>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> sometimes you're sewing on the zippers."
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> When I googled "theater production", however, I saw that
>>> theater
>>>>>>>>>>>> departments who teach production focus on what goes on
>>> backstage
>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> costumes, wigs, makeup, set design, lighting. That's much
>>>> narrower
>>>>>>>>>>>> than what a producer does. No useful book showed up.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nonetheless, theater might be a good way to talk about event
>>>>>>>> planning
>>>>>>>>>>>> because of a key feature of both: they are both bounded by
>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> audience's or the participant's, encounter with them. They
>>>> require
>>>>>>>>>>>> taking the audience's perspective from the first awareness
>>>>>>>>>>>> (pre-publicity) all the way through to the memory of the
>>> event.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I found this perspective useful when producing the annual
>>>>>>>> conferences
>>>>>>>>>>>> for labor educators, which were very successful and drew
>>>> increasing
>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers of participants over the four years I was doing it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Helena Worthen
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2/12/13 3:57 PM, "mike cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ah! Well, I started to send this note to all of you, then
>>>> decided
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> send to daughter, but ended up sending to all of you after
>>> all,
>>>> so
>>>>>>>>>>>>> here is the problem. Delete if this is an intrusion on your
>>>> time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I am teaching a class where students are interest in an
>>> activity
>>>>>>>>>>>>> called "event planning" for which people are sometime paid
>>>> enough
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> make a living. The difficulty is that the students do not
>>> appear
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been taught anything they can remember about events and
>>>> this
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a senior class. So I am doing some digging with them, and now
>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The dictionary is of limited use:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> * *
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *a. * Something that takes place; an occurrence.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *b. * A significant occurrence or happening. See Synonyms at
>>>>>>>>>>>>> occurrence<http://www.thefreedictionary.com/occurrence>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *c. * A social gathering or activity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> A philosophical dictionary lays out the problem territory in
>>>>>>>> greater
>>>>>>>>>>>>> detail: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/events/#EveVsObj
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> For events of type c, which the students are most concerned
>>> with
>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> course, my thought was to turn to the work of Turner,
>>>> Goffman.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>> but I cannot use an entire book.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I would appreciate suggestions for sources that would help me
>>>> and
>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>>>> students to think about events, especially as they relate to
>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> process called communication.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>>>>>>>>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>>>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>>>>>>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> __________________________________________
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>>>>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>>>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>> __________________________________________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>> __________________________________________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
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