Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?

[Bella Kotik-Friedgut <bella.kotik@gmail.com>]

As a student I took part in Leontjev's course on geleral psychology and the
his distancing was not obvious (at least for us as students because one of
the compulsory tasks was to read "  Thinking and Speech" and to be examined
fully on one book as well as another task to read Leontjev;s "Problems of
development of mind") As for the tradition: Luria's "Basics of
Neuropsychology" is based on Vygotsky's ideas  quite explicitly. Is this an
expression of cultural-historical tradition?

Bella Kotik
.
On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 5:57 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Achilles. I think we have lived to witness exactly "non-liner genetic
> course
> or history."  For many complex reasons Vygotsky "missed" the dominant trend
> of his times, behaviorism/psychoanalysis" in a way that anticipated the
> turn
> away from Piaget (who did not become "mainstream" in USA until late
> 1950's-60's) and banishment of Freud from mainstream psychology to cultural
> studies circles and, in watered down fashion, human potential movements) so
> that when
> Toulmin wrote about "The mozart of psychology" his clearly idiocyncratic
> interpretation fell like a match into a pool of gasoline (that looked for
> all the world like a pool of water). The "Vygotsky
> explosion" that many, such as Laszlo Garai in Hungary have written about,
> and that so irritate many, was the result.
>
> Its really a fascinating process to have lived through, contributed to,
> been guilty of, etc.
>
> And look at one of its consequences. We chatter across the globe as easily,
> or more easily, than we get a loaf of bread...... while others starve.
>
> Non linear for sure.
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
>  achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > I am not historicist, but I can remember something from Benjamin about
> > "tradition" x "conservationism" ... That tradition is not always
> > conservative nor authoritarian, there are democratic, dialogical,
> > revolutionary traditions too... I guess - in addition - that perhaps
> > something like a "cultural tradition" (any cultural tradition, in diverse
> > fields of society collective actions) can have a non-liner genetic course
> or
> > history... I dont know if this is terminologically possible or adequate.
> But
> > a psychological theory, and/or approach, and/or "perspective" (has some
> > people tell here in Brazil: "historical-cultural perspective") - can not
> be
> > like a dogmatic religious tradition (despite I have any doubts if even
> > religions can be strictly dogmatic all the time without any secular
> > influences and changes to dialog with broader cultural contexts, etc.).
> In
> > this sense neither behaviorism or psychoanalysis could be understood as
> an
> > strict "tradition" (there was fights and ruptures all the time,
> dissidences,
> > detours, new trends, and interpretations, etc.). Scientific thought
> > presupposes changes as a sine qua non condition of its own existence...
> Of
> > course, in the field of the Vygotsky's intelectual, cultural, legacy
> > ("puzzle kind" legacy) the discontinuous, intermittent, sometimes
> enigmatic,
> > character of the history of this "(non)tradition" it is very eminent.
> There
> > are several important intellectual disputes about the "correct
> > interpretation", the best exegetic tools, etc. But how can we name this
> > historical process? Is there something in this that can have the same
> name?
> > Every new name means an actual paradigmatic rupture? A name never can be
> > only one meaning, of course. The sample of the name of the Journal is
> really
> > worthwhile - a kind of "family name" (as "complex" in thought and
> language
> > relations). People sometimes use names, words, has sign of some
> collective
> > identity, to be included in a broader common troupe of social actors...
> this
> > is far to be something harmonious or ideally synergistic, but exist some
> > need to stay in touch with persons that have some common interests,
> mainly
> > common values, as Mike said. If this can be named a tradition, now I
> already
> > don't if is the more important question.
> > Achilles.
> >
> > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:26:30 -0800
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > From: lchcmike@gmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >
> > > Perhaps we can get the shif book translated if it is interesting. Does
> it
> > > exist in Russian, Anton?
> > >
> > > I disagree with only one part of what you say about
> "cultural-historical"
> > > school never existing. In the period from about 1956 following Stalin's
> > > death, to the death of Luria and Leontiev, there was an identifiable
> > group
> > > of people who met together, talked together, shared certain ideas and
> > > values. They were also quite influential as heads of some departments
> and
> > > institutes. They did not all agree with each other (Achille's evocation
> > of
> > > family strikes me as about right) and Leontiev was both feared and
> > distanced
> > > from the others, but they maintained a kind of uneasy alliance. Here I
> > would
> > > include
> > > Luria, Zaporzhets, Elkonin, Slavina, Morozova, and perhaps a few
> others.
> > >
> > > It is a great irony that NOW there is a journal of cultural-historical
> > > psychology in Russia. But perhaps, not a bad thing.
> > > mike (socio-cultural-historical activity scholar) :-))
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> > > achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I really understand... Maybe we can say that Vygotsky himself was
> > notever
> > > > following his own "project"... In some documents (letters) he
> > expresshis
> > > > desire to dedicate to an species of "cause", the "reconstruction of
> > > > allpsychological science, building an unified approach, but I really
> > feel
> > > > that therewas no "tradition" stricto sensu, nor no "vigotskian
> school"
> > in a
> > > > very definitefashion... Even more to read Vygotsky is hard exegetical
> > task,
> > > > his all workseems to be a kind of complex million pieces puzzle, at
> > least
> > > > for us non Russianreaders... I dont know... But when everybody lies,
> we
> > need
> > > > to think aboutmethodological tools to define if there is a possible
> > > > differentiation betweenlies and truth, or we can be satisfied with
> the
> > > > impossibility of any truth inany social discourse... In capitalists
> > liberal
> > > > regimes, people can tell some liesin order to satisfy editorial needs
> > and
> > > > market demands too... financial researchfounds to their(our)
> projects,
> > and
> > > > so on. Then, nobody is without guilt... inthis great social game for
> > > > personal success in unequal power relationships, between nations,
> > between
> > > > institutions, between groups, persons, or evenbetween brothers at the
> > same
> > > > home...
> > > > :-(
> > > > Best wishes.
> > > >
> > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 11:35:51 -0800
> > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >
> > > > > Same thing. No answer. Special research needed. Everybody lies.
> From
> > > > 1930s -- onwards.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, note: "Cultural-historical tradition" sensu Vygotsky never
> > existed.
> > > > And hardly exists today.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 12:59:24 PM
> > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Anton,
> > > > > This sounds much better! :-)Thank you very much. And about this
> > > > title?Психология глухих. (Под ред. И.М. Соловьева, Ж.И. Шиф, Т.В.
> > Розановой
> > > > и Н.В. Яшковой), М., 1971.Not already from the 1930s... What you
> > recommends?
> > > > I found an recent Russian publication from 2006,{
> > > > http://bookseller.ru/book.php?n=1454} but I did not feel secure to
> > order
> > > > in my blind condition tounderstand the book importance or relation to
> > > > historical-cultural tradition...
> > > > > Thank you.
> > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 09:48:14 -0800
> > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RE: Its important to know that it is not near to Vygotsky's
> trends.
> > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I never said so. I guess I meant to state that the connection is
> > not
> > > > obvious and requires substantial textual analysis. Especially so,
> given
> > the
> > > > deliberately cryptic style of writing in Soviet Psychology from the
> > 1930s
> > > > onwards...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 12:12:00 PM
> > > > > > Subject: RE: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I understand.Thank you very much.I saw that there is something
> from
> > her
> > > > about deaf psychology, for instance, etc.Its important to know that
> it
> > is
> > > > not near to Vygotsky's trends.
> > > > > > Best.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 08:10:21 -0800
> > > > > > > From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I personally strongly doubt any translation of this book ever
> > > > existed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good luck anyway!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -- However, there is other stuff by Shif available in English,
> > but it
> > > > is hardly related to her Leningrad work and represent her later
> Moscow
> > work
> > > > in defectology...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > > > > From: Achilles Delari Junior <achilles_delari@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 2:37:26 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [xmca] Zhozephina Shif – something in English?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi XMCA
> > > > > > > people…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In order to
> > > > > > > help another friend of mine, biologist, studying scientific
> > concepts
> > > > > > > development, I’m wonder if you have any notice about English
> > > > (Spanish, French,
> > > > > > > etc.) publication from the following text:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Shif, J. I. “Razvitie nauchnykh ponyatii u schko’nika:
> > > > > > > Issledovanie k voprosu umstvenogo razvitiya shkol’nika pri
> > obuchenii
> > > > > > > obshchestvovedeniyu” [The development of scientific concepts in
> > the
> > > > school
> > > > > > > child: The investigation of intellectual development of the
> > school
> > > > child in
> > > > > > > social science instruction]. Moscow – Leningrad:
> Gosudarstvennoe
> > > > > > > Uchebno-Pedagicheskoe Izdatel’stvo. 1935.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’m trying
> > > > > > > the Russian high now, but we are not so prepared to actually
> > > > translate Russian so
> > > > > > > soon, without a huge time spending… And there are many other
> > Russian
> > > > needs
> > > > > > > prior at the schedule, most of that already provide thanks you
> > all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you have any notice... :-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thank you
> > > > > > > very much. Good 2010 for all.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best
> > > > > > > wishes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Achilles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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-- 
Sincerely yours Bella Kotik-Friedgut
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