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Re: [xmca] Peter Smagorinsky on concepts

Dear Huw and Andy,

You have both flown over very quickly, can I go back a bit ? I have a
feeling that my own 'cloud' come out towards practice and not in 'books' so
maybe conceptual capacity mediates either? Why not just go for Davydov's
'theoretical thinking' as different from 'empirical thinking'  - In any
case in a sequential text form , such as is the technology of books,
concept is between for both writer and readers. I find it difficult to
'overcome' the sequential form of narative to explicate concept
sufficiently myself - yet in actuality a multiplicity ( sourced from
uncontrolleable immanence) of possibilities arise from 'concept' as Andy's
cloud. ( Though it is odd that this is not a living example of abundance,
and tends to Lewin's preference to constrain as if a 'closed' world' ,
which he also rejects - as is discussed by Vasilyuk too:))

Later Vasilyuk comments upon 'energy and living' and I had the experience
of trying to do this recently- it seems we are no further forward along
this exploration than he took us in this book - which arises from/towards
his practice of psychotherapy, I don't know of the timing of his research
in relation to his orientation in practice. Yet this kind of question seems
to be in the midst of your discussion. 'Holding' is such a relation,
life-relation  not 'thinking process'. It reminded me of trying to express
this through drawing - a way to 'overcome' limitation of verbal and find
expression - I had a kind of picture relevant to 'inheritance of academic
learning', which at any moment we find ourselves related to; some situation
( or predicament) of vital interest -through which experience is appearing
and out 'intervention' meaningfully working through; and someplace
rendering inherited academic learning transformed , 'alive'.

Perhaps you might expand 'book' or 'formal instruction' to include
'action-research' [ as articulation of concept development which
engendered  {valued/ acccomodated in collective}improvement of 'form of
living'] as a moment?? as distinct from personal sense, with some
plausibility as social 'meaning' though maybe not 'book' or 'formal
instruction' - - as 'where do these come from?' is the question that
springs out - how does academic knowledge transform etc.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 12:18 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>wrote:

> On 17 January 2012 11:58, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > Huw Lloyd wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>      I can't agree, Huw. To do justice to explaining a scientific or any
> >>      actual (developed) concept would always require holding that
> concept
> >>      in mind for a protracted period of time.
> >>
> >>
> >> Did you mean to say that, Andy?  Hold a concept?
> >> What is it that does the holding?  I would call this the thinking
> process.
> >>
> >
> > It's just an expression, Huw. It means that that same cloud can go on
> > raining for a long time, generating word meanings and other actions one
> > after another.
> >
> >
> >
> >  Seems fine to me, apart from 'book knowledge' which needs more pinning
> >> down.
> >>  Huw
> >>
> > By "book knowledge" I mean conceptual content which orignates entirely
> > independent of personal experience, received through social means via
> > culturally produced artefacts. So we are talking here about an
> > ideal-typical process of development which begins from a book, or from
> > formal instruction, and in no way relies on personal experience.
> >
> That's another point of disagreement.  It seems as plain as day to me that
> personal experience participates from the outset.
> Bye for now,
> Huw
> > Andy
> >
> >
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