Re: [xmca] perezhivanie als Erlebnis (Zero. The missing link)

[Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>]

OK, and now back to the missing link:

Zero. Vygotskii equating/associating 'perezhivanie' with Erlebnis. 


Not to say that I am 100% convinced that they are the same in Vygotskii's discourse, but, say, 
80-90% proof evidence is already available. 


Yesterday, in addition to hypothetic phrases "perezhivanie (Erlebnis)" or " Erlebnis (perezhivanie)"-- 
not discovered yet in Vygotskii's writings, as of this morning--

I forgot to mention another kind of evidence that might be more or less convincing. This is the case

when Vygotskii is discussing some concept that we are certain is rendered in German as

Erlebnis, and Vygotskii uses the word "perezhivanie" in order to talk about it.


Such instance has been found.


In one of his works, specifically, in "Etudes/Studies on the history of behaviour. Ape, primitive, child"

(written by the end of 1929, published in Moscow in 1930), on p. 42 of the original edition

Vygotskii discusses the "aga-perezhivanie" as it was presented in the work of Karl Buehler. 
This Vygotskii's book was by no means a rigorous scholarly study, which is clearly reflected in the fact

that nobody bothered to provide a reference to Buehler's quoted words. However, we know that 

in Buehler's original this "perezhivanie" stands for "Aha-Erlebnis" (also known as insight, aha! effect or 
eureka effect), and although no Erlebnis is mentioned in its title :))
the author's publication in question is most likely this one:


Bühler, K. (1907). Tatsachen und Probleme zu einer Psychologie der Denkvorgänge. 
Über Gedanken. Archiv für Psychologie, 9, 297-365.


Feel free to enjoy the immortal work of the genius of Karl  Bühler. 

In addition, one might want to check out this one, too: 

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aha-Erlebnis


Chances obviously are that while speculating about 'perezhivanie' as a unit of the analysis

of person-within-environment during his undergrad lecture at Leningrad Pedagogical Institute 

in 1933-1934 (I guess this is the only evidence of Vygotskii's use of this word, 'perezhivanie' in this meaning), 

Vygotskii totally forgot about "aga-perezhivanie"/Aha-Erlebnis. Indeed so, and I would bet

he was rather thinking about something like Kurt Lewin's Lebensraum/Lifespace or similar
notions. That is why the evidence presented here does not quite qualify as 100% proof of the 
direct link between 'perezhivanie' and 'Erlebnis' in Vygotskii's mind. 


Still, quite good for a 80-90% proof, anyway :)


AY




________________________________
 From: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> 
Cc: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com> 
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:43:54 AM
Subject: Re: [xmca] perezhivanie als Erlebnis
 


Extremely helpful -- thank you! -- I am getting some things from the list to read now, if anyone else does too and wants to discuss do let me know -- Beth



2013/4/24 Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

This is fantastic!
>Thanks,
>greg
>
>
>On Wed, Apr 24, 2013 at 1:58 PM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>
>> Several points in response to the issue of perezhivanie as direct
>> translation of German Erlebnis
>>
>> in Vygotsky's texts and the possible origin of this
>> trans-national/-cultural scientific transfer.
>>
>>
>> Zero. We still have no evidence that Vygotsky directly associated his
>> perezhivanie with Erlebnis.
>>
>> Well, it would be utterly strange if he did not, but -- textual evidence
>> is not there yet.
>>
>> The only thing I would trust as a 100% proof would be a text by Vygotsky
>> with a phrase
>>
>> "perezhivanie (Erlebniss)" or, in reverse order "Erlebnis (perezhivanie)".
>> Yet, such evidence is not
>>
>> there yet, therefore, all this is mere speculation. Let's call it a
>> hypothesis.
>>
>>
>> First. As to Erlebnis, the word was pretty popular in psychological
>> discourse back then
>> (i.e. during the first third of 20th century), so that I would speculate
>> that nobody would be
>>
>> terribly surprised to hear that psychology is a science of Erlebnis. This
>> is exactly what Vygotskii
>>
>> said when he finally realized that neither 'reflex', nor 'stimulus' and
>> 'reaction', nor even 'sign'
>>
>> works as an object of psychological research.
>>
>>
>> Second. Having some data to support such claims as the one above does not
>> hurt.
>>
>> So, in order to have such data, a very tentative and superficial research
>> has been done.
>>
>> Murchison's book Psychological Register of 1930 was searched for word
>> "Erlebnis",
>>
>> which showed only the occurrences of the word in the titles of
>> publications of that period.
>>
>> The source is freely available online, here:
>> http://archive.org/details/psychologicalreg031671mbp
>>
>> Thus, according to the search, there are several dozen publications that
>> directly deal with
>>
>> Erlebnis as it is reflected in their titles. Geographic distribution: many
>> occurrences in Germany,
>>
>> however, other countries are:
>>
>> America, Austria, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, Denmark & Iceland, Estonia,
>> Finland,
>> France & Algeria, and Hungary.
>>
>>
>> Speaking of the source of potential influence on Vygotskii, all the usual
>> suspects are here.
>>
>> The list includes Koffka, the Buehlers, Freud, Busemann, Eliasberg,
>> Krueger, Lipmann,
>> Stern W.,  and many others. I personally like not the author who
>> necessarily influenced Vygotskii,
>>
>> although the titles look really cute and pretty much "vygotskian", to my
>> taste:
>>
>> *  Erlebnisanalyse und Sprachwissenschaft (hey, the guy seem to know how
>> to do the analysis
>>
>> of perezhivanie!)
>>
>> * Primitives Denken (archaisch-urtueml. Daseins- u. Erlebnisformen)
>>
>> This is Alfred Storch, just in case. Anyway, please feel free to speculate
>> and pick your own
>> character, who might have possibly influenced Vygotskii.
>> I would definitely vote for the gestaltists although it was only Koffka,
>> who used the word
>>
>> "Erlebnis" in several titles of his published works. By the way: for a
>> really nice quote from Koffka
>>
>> see: http://psyhistorik.livejournal.com/80047.html
>>
>>
>> Third. For the actual list of publications secundum Murchison see below.
>>
>> THE LIST (not to be trusted entirely due to the errors of automatic
>> character recognition):
>>
>> AMERICA
>> Kahn, Eugen
>> Unfallereignis und Unfallerlebnis. Munch.
>> med. Woch., 1925, 72, 1458-1459.
>>
>> Koffka, Kurt
>> * Beitrage zur Psychologic der Gestalt und
>> Bewegungserlebnisse. Zsch. f. PsychoL,
>> 1913, 67, 353-358.
>> * Beitrage zur Psychologic der Gestalt und
>> Bewegungserlebnisse. III. Zur Grundlegung
>> der Wahrnehmungspsychologie.
>> Eine Auseinandersetzung mit V. Benussi.
>> Zsch. f. PsychoL, 1915, 73, 11-90.
>>
>> Schilder, Paul Ferdinand
>> * Ueber den Wirkungswert psychischer Erlebnisse
>> und uber die Vielheit der Quellgebiete
>> der psychischen Energie. Arch. f.
>> Psychiat. u. Nervenkr., 1924, 70, 1-15.
>> * Ueber das Hypnose-Erlebnis der Schizophrenen.
>> Zsch. f. d. ges. Neur. u. Psychiat.,
>> 1929, 120, 700-708.
>>
>> AUSTRIA
>> Buehler, Charlotte Bertha
>> Der Erlebnisbegriff in der modernen Kunst-
>> wissenschaft. In Festschrift fur Walzel.
>> Wien, 1924. S. 14.
>>
>> Buehler, Karl
>> Erlebnis, Benehmen und Werk. Proc. 6T
>> Papers 9th Int. Cong. PsychoL, 1929, 102-
>> 103.
>>
>> Freud, Sigmund
>> Kin religioses Erlebnis. Imago, 1928, 14,
>> 7-10.
>> Englisch: Religious experience. Int. J.
>> Psycho-AnaL, 1929, 10, 1-4.
>>
>> BULGARIA
>> Kasandjiev, Spiro Spassov
>> [Neue Methode fiir theoretische Untersuchung
>> und praktische Behandlung der
>> pathogenen affektiven Erlebnissen.] Utschilisten
>> Pregled, 1930, 29, 29-42.
>>
>> Kinkel, Johann
>> Das psychologische Wesen des Mystizismus
>> und mystisch-okkulter Erlebnisse und
>> Offenbarrungen. Eer. u. d. int. Kong. f.
>> Sexualforsch., Berlin, 10-16 Oktober 1926,
>> 1928, 3, 74-109.
>>
>> Krestnikoff, Nicolaus G.
>> Die heilende Wirkung kunstlich hervorgerufener
>> Reproduktionen von pathogenen
>> affektiven Erlebnissen. Arch. f. Psychiat.
>> u. Nervenkr., 1929, 88, 369-410.
>>
>> CZECHOSLOVAKIA
>> Kraus, Oskar
>> Meine Erlebnisse mit Frau Maria Silbert
>> im Hause des Herrn Neubert. Zsch. f.
>> Parapsychol., 1928, 65, 726-738.
>>
>> DENMARK & ICELAND
>> Hoffding, Harald.
>> Oplevelse og Tydning. K0benhavn: Gyldendal,
>> 1918. Pp. 238.
>> German: Erlebnis und Deutung. (Uebersetz.
>> von E. Magnus.) Stuttgart: Frommann,
>> 1923. S. 117.
>>
>> ESTONIA
>> Gruehn Werner Georg Alexander
>> Das Werterlebnis. Eine religionspsychologische
>> Studie auf experimenteller Grundlage.
>> Leipzig: Hirzel, 1924. S. 252.
>>
>> FINLAND
>> Ruin, Hans Waldermar
>> Erlebnis und Wissen. Kritischer Gang
>> durch die englische Psychologie. Helsingfors:
>> Soderstrom, 1921. Pp. 303.
>>
>> FRANCE & ALGERIA
>> Minkowski, Eugene
>> Bleulers Schizoidie und Syntonie und das
>> Zeiterlebnis. Zsch. f. d. ges. Neur. u. Psychiat.,
>> 1923, 82, 212-230.
>>
>> GERMANY
>> BUsemann, Adolf Hermann Heinrich
>> Die Familie als Erlebnismilieu des Kindes.
>> Zsch. f. Kinderforsch., 1929, 36, 17-82.
>>
>> von Duerckheim-Montmartin, Karlfried
>> Untersuchungen zurn gelebten Raum, Erlebniswirklichkeit
>> und ihr Verstandnis. Systematische
>> Untersuchungen II. Neue psychol.
>> Stud., 1931, 6, 383-480.
>>
>> Eliasberg, Wladimir
>> Das Zwangserlebnis und der soziale Zwang.
>> Zsch. f. d. ges. Neur. u. Psychiat., 1930,
>> 126, 417-425. Audi Ber. d. V. allg.
>> drztl. Kong. /. Psychotherap., Baden-
>> Baden, 1930, 26-29.
>>
>> Giese, Fritz W. O.
>> * Der anomale Transvestie in ihrem Erlebniswert.
>> Zsch. f. Sex.-<wiss. u. Sex.-pol.,
>> 1918, 4, 1-6.
>> * Das Gullivererlebnis der Jugend. Zsch. f.
>> pad. Psychol., 1925, 26, 257-264.
>> * Erlebnisformen des Alterns. Dtsc/i. Psychol.,
>> 1928, 5, 1-90.
>>
>> Henning, Hans Karl Ferdinand
>> * Das Erlebnis beim dichterischen Gleichnis
>> und dessen Ursprung. Zsch. /. Asth. u.
>> allg. Kunsfwiss., 1919, 13, 371-396.
>> * Die neuentdeckte Erlebnisklasse der Eidetik,
>> die Urbilder und der Konstitutionstypus.
>> Ber. d. Kong. f. dtsch. Nervenarzte, Danzig,
>> 1924. Dtsch. Zsch. f. Nervcnhk., 1924,
>> 81, 180-184.
>>
>> Hoffman, Arthur
>> Gruppenerlebnis in einem Kindertagesheim.
>> Ein Beitrag Psychologic des sozialen Verhaltens
>> in der friihen Kindheit. Zsch. f.
>> pad. Psychol., 1931, 32, 244-263.
>>
>> Kafka, Gustav
>> Erlebnis und Theorie in Fichtes Lehre vom
>> Verhaltnis der Geschlechter. Zsch. f. angcw.
>> Psychol., 1920, 16, 1-24.
>>
>> Krueger, Felix Emil
>> Erlebnisganzheit. Ueber seelische Struktur.
>> Forsch. u. Fo?tschr., 1930, 6, 461-463, 447-
>> 448.
>>
>> Lipmann, Otto
>> Die Spuren interessebetonter Erlebnisse und
>> ihre Symptome. Zsch. f. angeew. Psychol.,
>> 1911, Beiheft 1.
>>
>> Mayer-Gross, Willy
>> Selbstschilderungen der Verwirrtheit. Die
>> oneiroide Erlebnisform. (Monog. a. d.
>> Gch. d. Neur. u. Psychiat., 42.) Berlin:
>> Springer, 1924. S. 296.
>>
>> Moers, Martha
>> * Zur Psychologic des Reueerlebnisses. (Auf
>> Grund einer Umfrage.) Arch. f. d. ges
>> Psychol., 1926, 55, 297-360.
>> * Zur Psychopathologie des Reueerlebnisses.
>>
>> Mueller-Freienfels, Richard
>> Charakter und Erlebnis. Jahrb. d. Charakterol.,
>> 1926, 2-3, 21-45.
>>
>> Ritterhaus, Ernst Ludwig Johann
>> Die 'Spuren interessebetonter Erlebnisse'
>> und die 'Komplexforschung.' Zsch. f. d.
>> ges. Neur. u. Psychiat., 1912, 8, 273-283.
>>
>> Schneider, Kurt
>> Zur Psychologic und Pathologic der Gefiihlserlebnisse.
>> Zsch. f. d. ges. Neur. u.
>> Psychiat., 1928, 112, 233-246.
>>
>> Schwarz, George H.D.
>> Erlebnis und Deutung in der Geschichte der
>> Philosophic. Bin Beitrag zur Geschichte
>> der Axiologie. In Vom sittlich-religibsen
>> Erleben, hrg. von G. Schwarz. Greifswald:
>> Bamberg, 1924. S. 5-16.
>>
>> Stern, Erich
>> * Krankheit und religioses Erlebnis. Berlin.
>> Philoverlag, 1930. S. 26.
>> * Die ersten Gefuhlserlebnisse des Kinder
>> Kleine Kinder, 1931, 4, 101-104.
>>
>> Stern, Louis William
>> * Freundschafts- und Feinschafts-Erlebnisse in
>> der fruhen Pubertat. Zsch. f. pad. Psychol.,
>> 1925, 26, 81-97.
>> * Ernstspiel als Verhalten und als Erlebnis.
>> Zsch. f. pad. Psychol., 1929, 30, 9-16.
>>
>> Storch, Alfred
>> * Erlebnisanalyse und Sprachwissenschaft.
>> Zsch. f. Psycho!., 1924, 94, 146-152.
>> * Primitives Denken (archaisch-urtiiml. Daseins-
>> u. Erlebnisformen). Im Handvwrterhuch
>> der medizinischen Psychologies
>> hrg. von K. Birnbaum. Leipzig: Thieme.
>> 1930.
>>
>> Voigtlander, Elise
>> * Ueber die 'Art' eines Menschen und das
>> Erlebnis der 'Maske.' Zsch. f. Psychol.,
>> 1923,92, 326-336.
>> * Zur Phanomenologie und Psychologie des
>> 'alpinen' Erlebnisses. Zsch. f. angew. Psychol.,
>> 1923, 33, 258-270.
>>
>> HUNGARY
>> Lenart, Edith
>> Anschauliche Inhalte im asthetischen Erlebnis.
>> Zsch. f. Psychol., 1926, 99, 357-374.
>>
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>Visiting Assistant Professor
>Department of Anthropology
>883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>Brigham Young University
>Provo, UT 84602
>http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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