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RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren
I don't want to get too bogged down in this discussion, but I've been watching Stephen Hawkings' Into the Universe on the Discovery channel <http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/stephen-hawking/>. Hawking has virtually no muscle-moving capacity--only his eyes, as far as I can tell. His speech is produced through a computer, and it sounds like a generic phone answering machine's voice, i.e., mechanical, clunky, disjointed. Not too pretty. But what he says is pretty important.
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2012 4:04 AM
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
Huw,
So I may know what your position is; do you agree that the sounds of our speech, simply as sounds, removed from words, affect us? If so, how?
Joseph
On Jun 5, 2012, at 3:06 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> On 5 June 2012 22:43, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>
>> Huw,
>> I am referring to the influence upon persons by the deep structure of
>> spoken-word language - the relationship between the sounds of words
>> and that to which they refer -. The personal intellectual activity
>> that some participate in, using words as thinking facilitators, is
>> the realm of the few, the ones who have the time and motivation to do
>> so, not the majority of those of us who are struggling to make ends
>> meet. The harassed masses typically do not have much perceived
>> opportunity to engage in "extracurricular" activities.
>> The affect upon us of our language is automatic and constant,
>> while the understandings we achieve by our deliberate reasoning comes
>> to us only by our efforts.
>> I am not arguing against free will, but rather saying that
>> whatever impinges on our perspective, - especially whatever impinges
>> strongly on it -, should not be unknown to us. For our survival, we
>> need to understand human culture.
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
> This belongs under a separate email thread, Joseph.
>
> Have you looked at Halliday's writing? "The Language of Early Childhood"
> covers Haliday's consideration of developmental functions in language
> use which may be a good point of departure for advocating your own
> line of inquiry.
>
> Huw
>
>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2012, at 5:26 AM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> On 5 June 2012 04:56, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Dear Huw:
>>>> Seems I was misunderstood. The fact that there are deaf people does
>>>> not make a fly in the ointment. The culture is established by those
>>>> who do hear, - the 99.99% -. How do you imagine/think spoken-word
>>>> language influences human world-view?
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I imagine that one acquires a skill in construing, which is
>>> reflected in questions, that one learns an etiquette: one learns how
>>> to cultivate a curiosity in self and others.
>>>
>>> Greg,
>>>
>>> Re your Montreal question, did you have any thoughts around the
>>> distribution of appreciating different problems in the process of
>>> emerging roles? On a smaller, and perhaps simpler, scale I recall
>>> situations where problems had been setup for children to stumble
>>> upon, but that were seemingly not registered by them. A difficult
>>> problem left standing would amount to... what? A conversation and vocabulary around site boundaries?
>>>
>>> The suggestion that 'communication is the "site and surface" of
>>> organizations' seems productive, though I'm not taking this as
>>> comprehensive, rather as a reference to communicational exchange. If
>>> we want to be comprehensive then I think we need to include the
>>> organisational behaviour within the circumference of communication.
>>>
>>> Huw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Joseph
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>>>
>>>> They're of no consequence for those deaf to reason. ;)
>>>>>
>>>>> Huw
>>>>>
>>>>> On 4 June 2012 10:53, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> And here's about deaf-blind people:
>>>>>> http://www.marxists.org/****archive/meshcheryakov/****
>>>>>> awakening/index.htm<http://www.marxists.org/**archive/meshcheryak
>>>>>> ov/**awakening/index.htm>
>>>>>> <
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.marxists.org/**archive/meshcheryakov/**awakening/index.
>>>>> htm<http://www.marxists.org/archive/meshcheryakov/awakening/index.
>>>>> htm>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to Gallaudet University (which is for deaf people),
>>>>>>> http://research.gallaudet.edu/****Demographics/deaf-US.php<http:
>>>>>>> //research.gallaudet.edu/**Demographics/deaf-US.php>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://research.gallaudet.edu/**Demographics/deaf-US.php<http://r
>>>>>> esearch.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> There are a number of listings of deaf people of influence, e.g.,
>>>>>>> http://www.start-american-**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> sign-language.com/famous-deaf-****people.html<http://sign-languag
>>>>>> e.com/famous-deaf-**people.html>
>>>> <
>>>> http://www.start-american-**sign-language.com/famous-deaf-**people.
>>>> html<http://www.start-american-sign-language.com/famous-deaf-people
>>>> .html>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.op97.org/teach-****learn/documents/****PeopleWhoAreDeaf
>>>>> .pdf<http://www.op97.org/teach-**learn/documents/**PeopleWhoAreDea
>>>>> f.pdf>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.op97.org/teach-**learn/documents/**PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pd
>>>>>> f<http://www.op97.org/teach-learn/documents/PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/****List_of_deaf_people<http://en.wik
>>>>> ipedia.org/wiki/**List_of_deaf_people>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**List_of_deaf_people<http://en.wiki
>>>>>> pedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaf_people>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.deafpeople.com/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu
>>>>>> <xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>]
>>>>
>>>>> On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 6:12 PM
>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Peter,
>>>>>>> What percentage of any population is deaf and what influence do
>>>>>>> they exert upon the world-view of their society?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 3, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also wonder, what about deaf people?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>
>>>>> On Behalf Of Vera John-Steiner
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 5:54 PM
>>>>>>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Joseph
>>>>>>>> I wonder whether the ultimate finality of the word--"everything
>>>>>>>> is relative to the word"--provides a too narrow, monistic view.
>>>>>>>> Euclidean geometry is rich in proofs which are presented
>>>>>>>> through
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> visual
>>>>
>>>>> abstraction. These can be explained verbally but their persuasive
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> power is
>>>>
>>>>> visual.
>>>>>>>> This is an interesting though wandering discussion from toes to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Euclid.
>>>>
>>>>> Vera
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>
>>>>> On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 3:32 PM
>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nothing communicates as profoundly as vocal sounds, - motions
>>>>>>>> of the human body -. Everything is named, - identified -, by
>>>>>>>> sounds made by
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> our
>>>>
>>>>> body. Our own body-emotional goings on is the currency by which
>>>>> all
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> else is
>>>>
>>>>> valued. We relate to our world with our word.
>>>>>>>> Everything is reletive to the word. The "final word" on
>>>>>>>> anything IS
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> word.
>>>>>>>> The only handle we have on the meaning of our world is the
>>>>>>>> effect on
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> us
>>>>
>>>>> of the sounds of our words. We can prove nothing and can only feel
>>>>> our
>>>>>>>> vocal sounds for information of how we are affected by things.
>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> takes
>>>>
>>>>> different words to communicate different information. Bear in mind
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> that
>>>>
>>>>> words are fundamentally sounds and secondarily, referential tools.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> When we
>>>>
>>>>> refer to a thing, the referential tool is between ourselves and
>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> thing.
>>>>
>>>>> We perceive and are affected by the tool - the word - first and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> foremost
>>>>
>>>>> and then also by the thought of the referred-to thing.
>>>>> Subliminally,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> word defines the thing:
>>>>>>>> Consciously, the thing defines the word.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Joseph Gilbert
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyone out there know much about Francois Cooren or the
>>>>>>>> Montreal
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> School
>>>>
>>>>> of Organizational Communication?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the former, Cooren's book Action and Agency in Dialogue asks:
>>>>>>>>> "What if human interactants were not the only ones to be
>>>>>>>>> considered, paraphrasing Austin (1962), as "doing things with
>>>>>>>>> words"? That is,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> what if
>>>>
>>>>> other "things" could also be granted the status of agents in a
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> dialogical
>>>>
>>>>> situation?"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the latter, the MSOC is characterized by wikipedia as:
>>>>>>>>> "taking communication as the "site and surface" of
>>>>>>>>> organizations, meaning that the latter emerge from and are
>>>>>>>>> maintained by
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> communication
>>>>
>>>>> processes."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Both of these seem to be very important points that, I
>>>>>>>>> thought, articulate well with recent XMCA conversations.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyone have any insight?
>>>>>>>>> Perhaps a recommendation?
>>>>>>>>> -greg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of
>>>>>>>>> Comparative
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Human
>>>>
>>>>> Cognition Department of Communication University of California,
>>>>> San
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Diego
>>>>
>>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/****GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia.
>>>>> edu/**GregoryThompson>
>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson<http://ucsd.academia
>>>>>>>> .edu/GregoryThompson>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>>>> _____
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>>>>>>>>> edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> /mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
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>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/
>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
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>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/
>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> _____
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>>>>>>>> du/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>> mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>> _____
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>>>>>>> u/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/m
>>>>>> ailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
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>>>>>>> u/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>> <
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/m
>>>>>> ailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> ------------------------------****----------------------------**-
>>>>>> -**
>>>>>> ------------
>>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>>>>> Joint Editor MCA:
>>>>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/****toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfon
>>>>>> line.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1>
>>>>>> <
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonlin
>>>>> e.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>>>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________****____________
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
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>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> /mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>> <
>>>>>>
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/ma
>>>>> ilman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>> _____
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>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>
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