Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal (just choose your right ISM and become and IST)!

[Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>]

2012/3/23 Peter Feigenbaum <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>

> Colleagues,
>
> I would like to interject into this discussion (what I hope will be) a
> helpful comment.  From the perspective of discourse analysis as espoused by
> Bakhtin, every utterance is a *response* to some previous utterance. It
> serves primarily as a *reflection* upon another person's utterance and
> thought. In discussing the structure of inner speech thinking, Vygotsky
> arrives at a similar notion: every utterance of inner speech is a
> *predicate* that refers back to some idea already held in consciousness.
> (In typical conversation, ideas get into consciousness when one is
> listening to the words of others). So it should come as no surprise that
> Vygotsky's writings and ideas can be construed as consisting largely of the
> words and ideas of other great thinkers that preceded him.
>
> On the other hand, every utterance also has the potential to point forward
> toward a new topic. Competent speakers not only produce utterances that
> meet the cultural obligation of responding to what went before, but they
> also have the opportunity to fashion their responses so that they also
> *initiate* new ideas and move the conversation in new directions. It is
> this aspect of speech--the proactive, future-oriented, behavior-regulating
> aspect of speech--that we should look to when we are assessing what kind of
> intellectual mark a person makes upon the world of ideas. To know whether
> Vygotsky was a Marxist, for example, the evidence we should look for is how
> he used the ideas of Marx and Engels to put psychology on a new foundation.
>
>
I think we basically agree with these points, however that method doesn't
address the "pratical value" of categorising.  Marx used Hegels ideas, that
doesn't mean he was Hegelian.   Going beyond any personal ontology, to say
that one was in agreement with Marx to the point of being an adherent,
would be to agree with their motive or set of values worth surviving.  You
can infer why (motive) from what (idea) and how (means of application),
though it is more direct to start with why.

My interpretation of Anton's "NOBODY (no ruskie) 'helped'", is a subjective
statement about learning: the more profound a communication the more
independent is the rediscovery.  Any such notional help, could also be
hindrance.  But has the same motive been communicated, is this what Andy is
asking?

Huw


> My two cents.
>
> Peter
>
> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
> Associate Director of Institutional Research
> Fordham University
> Thebaud Hall-202
> Bronx, NY 10458
>
> Phone: (718) 817-2243
> Fax: (718) 817-3203
> e-mail: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>
>
>
> From:        Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> To:        "ablunden@mira.net" <ablunden@mira.net>, "eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>, "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date:        03/23/2012 10:41 AM
> Subject:        Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy:
> groundbreaking        discoveries in PsyAnima,        Dubna Psychological
> Journal (just choose your right ISM and become and        IST)!
> Sent by:        xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> ------------------------------
>
>
>
> Andy, I personally do not find this question meaningful.
>
>
> Thus, I would extend your question into a series of further similar
> questions:
>
> How many of us, present here, would consider ourselves as
>
> -Marxist?
>
> -Vygotskyist?
>
> -Deweyist?
>
> -Spinozist?
>
> -Engelsist?
>
> -Trotskyist?
>
> -Leninist?
>
> -Lewinist?
>
> -Koffkist?
>
> -Gestaltist?
>
> -cultural-historicist?
>
> -cultural-activity-theorist?
>
> -mechanicist?
>
> -reductionist?
>
> -holicist?
>
> -etc.
>
>
> Anyone is invited to ponder over this list and choose a right combination
> of labels of ISTs that would best characterize her or his scientific credo.
>
>
> The purpose of this list is to show that although we might be sympathetic
> with some author(s) and use his(their) legacy,
>
> it is virtually never productive, imho, to restrict one's work to a single
> "ist" influence.
>
>
> Not to mention the fact that labeling more often than not does no good,
> any time, any place ;)...
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> AY
>
>
> PS As to the essence of Andy's question: yes, Vygotsky was at times
> fooling around with Marx and Engles's ideas and quotes, like with a bunch
> of many other,
>
> from lots of different other sources. Like I previously said: Vygotsky was
> utterly derivative, indeed :)...
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 10:13:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking
> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal (link reminder)!
>
> Anton,
> I now have a PDF of your Vygotsky sociointellectual biography article.
> Could I just ask you one question? In your opinion, did Vygotsky
> consider himself a Marxist?
>
> Andy
>
> Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> > Oh, yes, and for those, who lost or missed the link to the special issue
> web site, here it is with all multilingual texts in English, Russian,
> Portuguese, and French, including the first ever publication of Vygotsky's
> rarest materials of 1922 :) --
> >
> >
> > http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/index.php
> >
> >
> > :)
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >  From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> > To: larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>; Activity eXtended Mind
> Culture <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 8:34:55 AM
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking
> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal (Tool & Sign/Symbol
> comments)!
> >
> > Some comments on Tool and Sign, first published in Russian in 1984, and
> in English in 1994:
> >
> >
> > 1. No diagrams whatsoever in the Russian publication of 1984 can be
> found.
> >
> >
> > 2. We do not know what Vygotsky was -- or was not pushing -- since we
> have NO evidence that he was aware of the existence of this text, whether
> under the title "Tool and sign" or "Tool and symbol" or any other else. For
> the list of all half dozen titles or so under which the text was published
> see: http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/2011n4a1/2011n4a1.pdf , table
> 3, page 22
> >
> > 3. The claim is made
> > (a) on the basis of analysis of Vygotsky's own autobiographies and
> bibliographies that he prepared himself:
> > - the author did not consider the work later published as Tool and
> Sign/Symbol among his major works
> >
> >
> > (b) on the basis of the language of the English text:
> > - the text could not have been finished by 1930, and, -- due to highly
> eclectic mixture of "reactological"/"reflexological" (Vygotsky's
> mechanistic period of "instrumental psychology" of 1920s) and, on the other
> hand, "systemic" notions (Vygotsky's period of 1930s, radically different
> from the period of the 1920s) -- the English text was somewhat mechanically
> augmented by somebody else with several paragraphs of the later period here
> and there
> >
> >
> > (c) on the basis of  testimony of a witness, Russian text structure,
> specifically, numerous almost verbatim repetitions, and linguistic features
> of these repetitions:
> >
> > - the Russian text is a second translation from English and results from
> unprofessional editorial combination of the translated texts of two (or
> more) translators
> >
> >
> > Last note: not all Vygotsky's works were finished and actually published
> by their author, which indeed happened from time to time in the history of
> science.
> >
> > However: the scope and the graveness of editorial interventions into the
> text raise pretty serious concerns about these texts authenticity and
> reliability.
> >
> > For discussion please see:
> >
> > van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What still
> needs to be done [html && pdf]. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral
> Science, 45(4), 475-493; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9
> >
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/fulltext.html OR
> >
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/fulltext.pdf
> >
> >
> > For examples of editorial interventions see:
> > Mecacci, L., & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Editorial Changes in the Three
> Russian Editions of Vygotsky's Thinking and Speech (1934, 1956, 1982):
> Towards Authoritative and Ultimate English Translation of the Book.
> PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal, 4(4), 159-187
> > http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/2011n4a5/2011n4a5.pdf
> >
> >
> > AND
> >
> >
> > Zavershneva, E., & Osipov, M. E. (2010). Osnovnye popravki k tekstu
> "Istoricheskij smysl psikhologicheskogo krizisa", opublikovannomu v
> sobranii sochinenij L.S. Vygotskogo (1982-1984) [Main editorial
> interventions in the text of "Historical meaning of psychological crisis"
> published in the collected works of L.S. Vygotsky (1982-1984)]. Voprosy
> psikhologii(1), 92-102.
> >
> > (This publication is unfortunately not available online either in
> English--no translation exists--or in the original, in Russian).
> >
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> > P.S.
> > For discourse analysis of a repeated fragment in the Russian text see:
> > Yasnitsky, A. (2011). "I Wish You Knew From What Stray Matter...":
> Identifying the set of Vygotsky's major oeuvre and determining the
> chronology of their composition. PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal,
> 4(4), 1-52 (In Russian)
> > http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/2011n4a1/2011n4a1.pdf
> > Table 5, page 28
> >
> > For the representation of the structural features of the Russian/English
> texts and the schematic visualization of all repeated fragments see:
> > Kellogg, D. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). The differences between the Russian
> and English texts of Tool and Symbol in Child Development. Supplementary
> and analytic materials. PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal, 4(4), 98-158
> > http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/2011n4a4/2011n4a4.pdf
> > Figures 1 and 2, pp. 101 and 102 respectively; the rest might be of
> interest, too.
> >
> > For a relatively brief summary of the findings on the chronology of
> Vygotsky's main works composition and their relative importance to the
> author see:
> > Yasnitsky, A. (2011). The Vygotsky That We (Do Not) Know: Vygotsky's
> Main Works and the Chronology of their Composition. PsyAnima, Dubna
> Psychological Journal, 4(4), 53-61
> > http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/2011n4a1/2011n4a1.1.pdf
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: larry smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>
> > To: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 12:00:36 AM
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking
> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >
> >
> >
> > In Mind and Society p.54  Figure 4 looks like this
> >
> >                                                 Mediated Activity
> >
> >
> >                                          Sign                        Tool
> >
> > Is this diagram in the Vygotsky text in Russian - in Tool and Symbol
> 1930?
> >
> > If so, is the claim being made that Vygotsky did not put this Figure in
> the text (or
> > use it as an illustration)?
> >
> > By the way it is my understanding that none of George Herbert Mead's
> books were
> > written by him, they are all lecture notes that his students took.
> >
> > It is not surprising to me that Vygotsky texts are not all in finished
> form as written by the
> > original author.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 20:25:31 -0700
> >> From: the_yasya@yahoo.com
> >> Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking
>   discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >> To: lchcmike@gmail.com; ablunden@mira.net; xmca@weber.ucsd.edu;
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> CC:
> >>
> >> I guess presently the chapter can be found at scribd...
> >>
> >>
> >> Right, here it is:
> http://www.scribd.com/doc/79482780/Yasnitsky-2011-Lev-Vygotsky-Philologist-and-Defectologist-Sociointellectual-Biography
> >>
> >>
> >> AY
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >>   From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >> To: ablunden@mira.net; "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:12:06 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groundbreaking
> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >>
> >> How about sending around a manuscript of your article, Anton? So that
> the
> >> ideas get wide dissemination and discussion.
> >>
> >> mike
> >>
> >> On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 7:41 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> OK, so let me summarise, Anton.
> >>> (1) You say that the central place of mediation by symbols and tools in
> >>> the development of human consciousness is something introduced by some
> >>> anonymous uncredited writer.
> >>> (2) I am well aware of the notions of unit of analysis, situation and
> >>> Gestalt used by the Gestaltists you mention and I find them quite
> inferior
> >>> to the notions I have learnt from who I thought was Vygotsky, so I have
> >>> another anonymous uncredited writer to thank for this.
> >>> (3) If you are saying that Vygotsky did not read German philosophy till
> >>> near the end of his life if at all, I am inclined to agree. Whoever it
> was
> >>> that I have been reading seem to have brilliantly extracted these
> insights
> >>> from reading Marx and discussions with 20th century writers.
> >>>
> >>> Andy
> >>> Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Let's put somewhat aside the question if anybody can actually
> *discover*
> >>>> an *idea* or a *concept*: I tend to think that we rather *construct*
> and
> >>>> *introduce* them, like any other neologisms. Anyway, this is just a
> remark
> >>>> aside, let's get straight to the matter.
> >>>>
> >>>> I need to think if Vygotsky in fact ever said anything on "mediated
> >>>> action" (if anybody is aware of specific locus in any Vygotsky's text
> where
> >>>> he actually says "mediated action" I would greatly appreciate the
> reference
> >>>> to the source).
> >>>> As to the other two, I am inclined to look towards the Gestaltists,
> >>>> primarily Kurt Koffka along with such peripheral participants and
> >>>> fellow-tavellers of Gestaltpsychologie movement as Kurt Lewin and Kurt
> >>>> Goldstein as the guys who approximately one hundred seventeen times
> better
> >>>> and way earlier expressed pretty much the same ideas, but in slightly
> >>>> different terms than Vygotsky vaguely did with his "unit of analysis"
> and
> >>>> "social situation of development". I am not sure,  but I guess I
> briefly
> >>>> suggested this here:
> >>>>
> >>>> Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and Defectologist, A
> >>>> Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., &
> Wertheimer,
> >>>> M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, (Vol.
> 7, pp.
> >>>> 109-134).
> >>>>
> >>>> Vygotsky, in turn, only started learning from the great Germans
> >>>> (Americans, Jews, etc.) when he died.
> >>>> Unfortunately, though, I am not so sure that these ideas have in fact
> >>>> revolutionized psychology, at least so as long as mainstream (i.e.,
> >>>> empirical, North American, ahistorical, non-cumulative, reductionist,
> etc.)
> >>>> psychology is concerned.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anton
> >>>>
> >>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >>>> ------------
> >>>> *From:* Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> >>>> *To:* Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
> >>>> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >>>> *Sent:* Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:43:14 PM
> >>>> *Subject:* Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy:
> groudbreaking
> >>>> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >>>>
> >>>> So Anton, to whom should we be attributing ideas like "unit of
> >>>> analysis", "social situation of development", "mediated action" which
> >>>> have revolutionised psychology, and we have been thinking were
> >>>> discoveries of Vygotsky? Is there someone else who should be credited?
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy
> >>>>
> >>>> Anton Yasnitsky wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Indeed, thanks a lot to all those researchers, editors, translators,
> >>>>>
> >>>> and other volunteers and enthusiasts who made this -- and will make
> several
> >>>> forthcoming  -- journal issues possible!!
> >>>>
> >>>>> As to Vygotsky's archives, well, it is a little bit different. For
> >>>>>
> >>>> instance, as one paper argues, on the contrary, archival materials of
> one
> >>>> of arguably Vygotsky's works were NOT preserved, and the Russian text
> of
> >>>> the work was blatantly retranslated (or just translated) into Russian
> from
> >>>> English (this was a much later copy that actually WAS preserved, or,
> for
> >>>> that matter, was NOT preserved either, but was "reconstructed" some
> time in
> >>>> the 1950s or 1960s).
> >>>>
> >>>>> Yet again, as we know, the manuscript of yet another work, commonly
> >>>>>
> >>>> believed to be a central work of Vygotsky, was NOT preserved either.
> The
> >>>> same holds for yet another allegedly most important Vygotsky's book.
> >>>>
> >>>>> So, in sum, I would not be that thankful to those who have been in
> >>>>>
> >>>> charge of keeping Vygotsky's archival stuff  alive and, for that
> matter,
> >>>> accessible.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Anton
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________**__
> >>>>>   From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com<lchcmike@gmail.com>
> >>
> >>>>> To: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:the_yasya@yahoo.com<the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> >>;
> >>>>>
> >>>> "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:
> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Cc: Alexey Kuznetsov <alexey.math@gmail.com <mailto:
> >>>>>
> >>>> alexey.math@gmail.com>**>; Ющенкова Дарья Викторовна <
> >>>> dashulya-psy@mail.ru <mailto:dashulya-psy@mail.ru<dashulya-psy@mail.ru>>>**;
> Anton Yasnitsky <
> >>>> anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com <mailto:anton.yasnitsky@gmail.**com<anton.yasnitsky@gmail.**com>
> <anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com>>>;
> >>>> Мещеряков Борис Гурьевич <borlogic@yahoo.com <
> mailto:borlogic@yahoo.com <borlogic@yahoo.com>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:04:02 AM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Special issue on Vygotsky's legacy: groudbreaking
> >>>>>
> >>>> discoveries in PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological Journal!
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks to all who carried out this work. Thanks also to those who
> kept
> >>>>>
> >>>> the archival materials alive.
> >>>>
> >>>>> mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2012/3/21 Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com <mailto:
> >>>>>
> >>>> the_yasya@yahoo.com>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> A special issue of PsyAnima, Dubna Psychological issue has been
> >>>>>
> >>>> released lately. This thematic multilingual issue combined a few
> studies on
> >>>> textology, chronology and historical development of  Vygotsky's works.
> >>>> Several highlights include:
> >>>>
> >>>>>>> - first ever rigorous historical reconstruction of the list of
> >>>>>>>
> >>>> Vygotsky's major works and the chronology of their composition
> >>>>
> >>>>>> - the sensational finding: Vygotsky never wrote the "History of
> >>>>>>
> >>>> development of higher mental (psychological) functions" and "Tool and
> >>>> symbol (sign)" the way we know these texts in Russian now
> >>>>
> >>>>>> - a discussion of Vygotsky's " Tool and Sign" (alias "Tool and
> Sign"),
> >>>>>>
> >>>> i.e. the first half of what we all know as "Mind and Society" (1978,
> >>>> chapters 1-4): was Russian text translated from the English one, or
> the
> >>>> English text translated from Russian one, or both?
> >>>>
> >>>>>> - numerous fakes and falsifications in Vygotsky's various published
> >>>>>>
> >>>> works & the problem of reliability: is it the Vygotsky that we know or
> >>>> rather -- the Vygotsky that we DO NOT know?
> >>>>
> >>>>>> - full list of editorial interventions in the three editions of
> >>>>>>
> >>>> Vygotsky's "Thinking and speech" of 1934, 1956, & 1982
> >>>>
> >>>>>> - a historical, first ever republication of early Vygotsky's
> articles
> >>>>>>
> >>>> on art, theatre and literature of 1922: the unknown Vygotsky of his
> Gomel'
> >>>> period (1917-1924)
> >>>>
> >>>>>> All these and some other materials, in Russian, English, Portuguese,
> >>>>>>
> >>>> and French are available FREE, 24/7 online @
> http://www.psyanima.ru/**
> >>>> journal/2011/4/index.php<
> http://www.psyanima.ru/journal/2011/4/index.php>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> The editorial team are presently considering publishing a follow-up
> >>>>>>
> >>>> issue of the journal that would build on these studies, so any
> >>>>
> >>>>>> queries, comments, suggestions, and even paper proposals (in
> virtually
> >>>>>>
> >>>> any language and of virtually any length) will be greatly appreciated!
> >>>>
> >>>>>> ______________________________**____________
> >>>>>> _____
> >>>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    > ______________________________**____________
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> _____
> >>>>> xmca mailing list
> >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> >
> >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >>>> ------------
> >>>> *Andy Blunden*
> >>>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<
> http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> >>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <
> http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
> >>>> Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1608461459/<
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >>> ------------
> >>> *Andy Blunden*
> >>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<
> http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> >>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >>> Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/**product/1608461459/<
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/>
> >>>
> >>> ______________________________**____________
> >>> _____
> >>> xmca mailing list
> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> __________________________________________
> >> _____
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> __________________________________________
> >> _____
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1608461459/
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