I would answer Yes to (a) and No to (b).
Whatever you may mean by the 'tenet' that "we can have objective
knowledge", it seems clear to me that what people experience as self
ranges very widely, and often includes such dimensions as relatedness to
other persons (cf. Markus & Kitayama 1991), envisaged future trajectories
(cf. Cole 1992), and many other frames of reference that are not in any
easy sense "encompassed" by the body (whether that be conceptualized in
biological or perceptual terms).
If this makes me a relativist, so be it. But I am not committed to the
notion that one cultural worldview is irredeemably insulated from all
others. Rather I like to think of my position as one of perspectivism, as
articulated by Lukes (1982), and Horton (1982).
Robert
On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Paul Dillon wrote:
> Robert,
>
> There's a real fundamental problem here: the status of mythological
> worldviews v. scientific worldviews. Your example rings of a level of
> cultural relativism that I believe to be at odds with the underlying CHAT
> tenet that we can have objective knowledge; that, as Ilyenkov proposes, we
> scientific concepts take us closer to an understanding of the thing as it is
> in itself.
>
> Paul H. Dillon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Serpell <serpell who-is-at umbc.edu>
> To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Friday, October 29, 1999 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: A question of selves
>
>
> >Arguably, the body is just one possible delimiting frame of reference.
> >
> >In a social ontogeny of selfhood such as that proposed by Nsamenang (1992)
> >as representative of a West African worldview, the self begins with a
> >spiritual selfhood in the prenatal phase and culminates after the death
> >of the body in an ancestral selfhood.
> >
> >
> >Robert
> >
> >On Thu, 28 Oct 1999, Paul Dillon
> >wrote:
> >
> >> Vera,
> >>
> >> That was beautifully expressed and provides an answer to my question
> insofar
> >> as it reduces the status of the selves that Judy named to facets of a
> >> system. I suppose that any facet itself, etc. would be capable of
> becoming
> >> a system of similar facets, holographic or fractal reproduction, etc.
> But .
> >> . . is the body that is born, lives and dies an encompassing system that
> we
> >> inevitably presuppose and whose trajectory demarcates the domain of all
> that
> >> can occur as experience of self? Higher mental functions still
> embodied
> >> mental functions?
> >>
> >> Paul H. Dillon
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Vera P. John-Steiner <vygotsky who-is-at unm.edu>
> >> To: xmca who-is-at weber.ucsd.edu <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>; Vera P. John-Steiner
> >> <vygotsky who-is-at unm.edu>
> >> Date: Thursday, October 28, 1999 2:38 PM
> >> Subject: Re: A question of selves
> >>
> >>
> >> >It seems to me that the selves of which Judy writes are different facets
> >> >of the functional system of self. When focusing on a coherent account
> >> >of one's life, one aspect of remembered experiences is mobilized. In
> >> >conversational contexts an other facet emerges, that of a very immediate
> >> >awareness of the otherwith whom one co-constructs utterances, thoughts,
> >> >and opinions. These govern the practice of voicing. Audience,
> >> >artifacts, purpose all contribute to mobilizing the subset of
> >> >possibilities that are part of the dynamics of the "self,
> >> >or what Wenger refers to as "identity as a focus of social selfhood."
> >> >In my class on collaboration, students speak of the simultaneously
> >> >experiencing mutuality and autonomy; they embrace Penuel and Wertsch's
> >> >statement about the irreducible tension of the individual and the
> >> >social.
> >> >Vera
> >> >---------------------------------
> >> >Vera P. John-Steiner
> >> >Department of Linguistics
> >> >Humanities Bldg. 526
> >> >University of New Mexico
> >> >Albuquerque, NM 87131
> >> >(505) 277-6353 or 277-4324
> >> >Internet: vygotsky who-is-at unm.edu
> >> >---------------------------------
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >Robert Serpell tel: ( 410 ) 455 2417
> >Psychology Department 455 2567
> >University of Maryland Baltimore County
> >1000 Hilltop Circle
> >Baltimore MD 21250 fax: ( 410 ) 455 1055
> >
> >
>
Robert Serpell tel: ( 410 ) 455 2417
Psychology Department 455 2567
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore MD 21250 fax: ( 410 ) 455 1055