Re: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity

[Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>]

Mike

The article you and Etienne's wrote,
 "Minding the GAP: Imagination, Creativity, and Human Cognition"  is a
brilliant synthesis and novel perspective engaging with imagination and
creativity.  I want to amplify your perspective on "imagination andits
centrality n our human nature. Imagination, not as assumed within cognitive
psychology to be a realm of the invisible or non-present BUT imagination as
a fundamental process "integrating sensory data"  which for your purposes
can be thought of as a process of "INTEGRATING the SELF and the WORLD"

You give your definition of the process of imagination as follows:

"Imagination is the process of RESOLVING and connecting the fragmented,
poorly co-ordinated experience of the world so as to BRING ABOUT a stable
image of the world.  Thereby a feeling of oneself in relation to the world
EMERGES."

Imagination is a GAP-FILLING process and the products of this gap-filling
depends on the conditions and constraints in which the process of
gap-filling UNFOLDS. The making of the whole world of culture depends on
these products of imagination formed within fragmented experiences. Your
understanding of imagination assumes this process is present in ALL
experiences of sense data
as a BASIC, PERVASIVE, and distributed faculty of materially embodied
thought and action.  The basic reality is that

"CONSTANT DISCOORDINATION WITH the world is a necessary constitutive aspect
OF the world as individuals that behave IN the world."
In other words you emphasize that a DISCONTINUITY in sensory input about
objects in the world MUST exist and it is within this GAP in continuity
that imagination emerges to fill in the gaps and it is this imaginative
filling in that is the fundamental way self and world emerge within this
relational imagination.

In summary, though we experience the world, at the conscious level, as
continuous, in actual fact it is the pervasive relation of discontinuous
fragmented sense data which generates the imaginal realm that makes
an image of continuity [which in actuality is discontinuous.]

This process of gap-filling IS the THIRD COMPONENT REQUIRED IN  ACTIVE
RECONCILIATION or filling-in of the gaps, by human beings who make sense of
their experience MOMENT by MOMENT within sequential time intervals. This
resolving activity is necessary for an image of the world TO ARISE.

This process of gap-filling IS human nature and imagination is therefore
basic and pervasive and is the required condition that resolves the
fragmentation at the heart of our humanness resulting from being situated
BETWEEN nature and culture.

 [The 1st component of perception of sense data is phylogenetic, the 2nd
component is culturally organized]

Mike, I summarized your position because of the more general anaology that
you are proposing beyond the perceptual level. This process of gap-filling
at the sense data level is a CASE that can be generalized to multiple forms
of action and thought [other TYPES of gap-filling RESOLVING activity]
that are analogous to the processes explored within saccatic activity. In
all cases a gap is generated within which an image may emerge FROM the
gap-filling activity resolving differences in sources of information.

I would like to take a moment to suggest one other type of gap-filling that
Daniel Stern is exploring in his notion of the "present moment" which is
not at the saccaditic time interval, but rather has a time arc of a few
seconds.  This TYPE of resolving activity he suggests works at the
narrative level and involves plot and characters.  The intersubjective
relations within THIS time interval follow your model of gap-filling and
resolving differences in sources of information but at a different time
interval within face to face communication in which RUPTURES in the
communication are basic and pervasive.  These ruptures can be resolved
through the imaginary gap filling which develops within dialogical face to
face intersubjective experience extending over a few seconds.

As you suggest in your article there are multiple heterogenous and
heterochronic "ways" humans participate in these gap-filling resolving
activities but all require imagination as the relational HINGE between self
and world.

Mike,  hope I've "re-presented" your position faithfully [if not, then
dialogically WE will develop more clarity through further resolving
activity]

The POTENTIAL this article is pointing towards I believe has far reaching
implications. It also supports Patchen Markel's thesis about alternative
kinds of stances or "dispositions" which would be engendered through
perspectives of gap-filling imagination.

Larry

On Sat, Jan 21, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Nektarios Alexi <NEKTARIOS.ALEXI@cdu.edu.au
> wrote:

> Mike i am speechless,this article is one of the most completed papers i
> have ever read!!I am sure that if Luria and Vygotsky would be alive
> now,would be proud to see that their vision of romantic science is
> spreading around the world.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole
> Sent: Sun 1/22/2012 1:33 AM
> To: Larry Purss
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity
>
> Larry and those interested in these temporality issues (which I have been
> relating back to the statement of "individualist ontology" from the
> Vasiliuk pages Andy posted). Local constraints require either that I not
> respond or respond inadequately. Choosing the latter path, I answer
> inadequately by posting a paper on the topic of imagination. I believe it
> is relevant and it is all I have to hand on the topic at present.
> mike
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Mike
> > I agree this is probably tapping into the same processes.
> > You mentioned that taking this perspective seriously has repercussions
> for
> > how our understandings of development and also has implications for moral
> > issues. Mike in an earlier post you mentioned this topic on
> > temporality could open up a conversation on the implications of tapping
> > into the future oriented nature of perception?  In what ways do you see
> > this shift in perspective having an impact on our understanding of living
> > in the world?
> >
> > Larry
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:23 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Larry-- I believe that what you are referring to potential experiencing
> is
> >> perhaps another way of tapping into the Zinchenko insistence on the
> >> "future
> >> oriented" nature of perception.
> >>
> >> mike
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Monica, thanks for this appreciation.  Yes, at times I also feel like
> >> I'm
> >> > just chasing my tail. However with the insight that "trying to figure
> it
> >> > all out" is actually just good conversation and fellowship with both
> the
> >> > biologically living and our ancestors who are still "alive", there is
> a
> >> > shift in the quest for "knowing" that is experienced more like a form
> of
> >> > playing.
> >> >
> >> > I'm also grounded by having a grand daughter Elena, [now 17 months]
> >>  who I
> >> > experience as dancing through life, moving between security needs and
> >> > exploratory needs, and I intuitively sense that the "dance" WE are
> >> > participating in is moving between security and exploration. When
> Elena
> >> > PAUSES in her explorations, and  checks in with mom, dad, grandma, or
> >> > grandpa, and then is off again to engage with objects this PAUSE is
> >> > foundational for re-orienting to further POTENTIAL exploring with
> >> > fascination and delight.  THE POTENTIAL EXPERIENCE expressed in this
> >> > relational dancing through life is palpable.
> >> >
> >> >  I often wonder, when sharing this lived experience of vitality with
> >> Elena,
> >> > if there is a deeper truth about our human nature being expressed in
> >> this
> >> > dance of  POTENTIAL existence? As the person and world become more
> >> > complex with further development can life remain playfull as it
> changes
> >> its
> >> > form and structure?  As I'm "chasing my tail" can I delight in the
> chase
> >> > instead of always seeing it as a struggle?  Monica, maybe it requires
> a
> >> > great deal of struggle and hard difficult work to return to this place
> >> of
> >> > playing.  I don't know.
> >> >
> >> > Part of the experience of "chasing my tail" is the recognition that
> >> > participating in the dance with my grand daughter may not be
> >> participating
> >> > in "transforming" the world.  My hesitant response is the practice of
> >> > dancing with my grand daughter is also developing knowlege which is
> >> > phronesis and THIS knowlege can be USED in the schools I work in and
> >> also
> >> > inform my conversations with others.  These practices, which also USE
> >> > "techne" and "theory" [other forms of knowing] are  informed by my
> >> > knowledge gained dancing with my grand daughter.
> >> >
> >> > Just musings on "chasing my tail"
> >> >
> >> > Larry
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:05 PM, monica.hansen <
> >> > monica.hansen@vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Larry,
> >> > > I like this view or interpretation of writing because it allows for
> >> > signs,
> >> > > or representations of meaning, to be "real"--that quality being
> >> shared in
> >> > > the process of communicating--but not fixed. Knowledge or ideas have
> >> the
> >> > > same quality and should not be confused with actual structures in
> >> brain,
> >> > > memory, or mind. Structures exist, but they are responsible for the
> >> > > experience of making meaning or "knowing". I appreciate, as always,
> >> > Larry,
> >> > > how much you read and carry your references into this discourse.
> >> > >
> >> > > For some of us it is really interesting trying to figure it all out
> >> and
> >> > > using different approaches to do so, but you can see how for others
> >> it is
> >> > > just like a dog chasing its tail.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > Monica
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ________________________________________
> >> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] on
> >> > behalf
> >> > > of Larry Purss [lpscholar2@gmail.com]
> >> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:50 AM
> >> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> >> > > Subject: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and
> generativity
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike, and Haydi
> >> > >
> >> > > The question on activity and reflectivity and its relation to
> >> temporality
> >> > > is the question Mike posed.
> >> > >
> >> > >  I didn't want to take the focus off Haydi's further elaboration of
> >> > > Vasilyk so I'm posting this thought on POTENTIAL EXISTENCE and
> signs.
> >> > from
> >> > >  Eugene Halton [article is Pragmatic E-Pistols on Greg's post]
> Halton
> >> > >  writes,
> >> > >
> >> > > Signs involve existence but are NOT reducible to existence, for
> their
> >> > being
> >> > > lies in their being interpreted. in a FUTURE interpretation: in
> >> > continuing
> >> > > semiosis. So that a SELF or a sign has a REALITY at any GIVEN MOMENT
> >> as a
> >> > > POTENTIAL EXISTENCE, in Peirce's terms" page 46.
> >> > >
> >> > > Potential existence, dialogically, as interpreted.  This dialogical
> >> > > "interpretation" can be DISTINGUISHED and COME INTO EXISTENCE
> through
> >> > > "thinking" [reflecting] or through conversation [reflecting] with
> >> others
> >> > > [both forms can be encounters with alterity]  Writing is another
> form
> >> of
> >> > > encountering dialogical alterity to express POTENTIAL existence.
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > In other words systems and traditions and concepts [cultural
> >> > > historical reality] can be USED within the GIVEN MOMENT as signs
> >> within
> >> > > shared understanding LEADING TO POTENTIAL self-understanding ARISING
> >> > within
> >> > > shared understanding.
> >> > >
> >> > > Mike & Haydi , this is one possibility of the temporal sequence of
> the
> >> > > lived world expressed within humanness.
> >> > >
> >> > > Larry
> >> > > __________________________________________
> >> > > _____
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> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > __________________________________________
> >> > > _____
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> >> > >
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> >> > _____
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> >> >
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> >> _____
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> >>
> >
> >
>
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