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RE: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity

Mike i am speechless,this article is one of the most completed papers i have ever read!!I am sure that if Luria and Vygotsky would be alive now,would be proud to see that their vision of romantic science is spreading around the world.


-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu on behalf of mike cole
Sent: Sun 1/22/2012 1:33 AM
To: Larry Purss
Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: Re: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity
 
Larry and those interested in these temporality issues (which I have been
relating back to the statement of "individualist ontology" from the
Vasiliuk pages Andy posted). Local constraints require either that I not
respond or respond inadequately. Choosing the latter path, I answer
inadequately by posting a paper on the topic of imagination. I believe it
is relevant and it is all I have to hand on the topic at present.
mike

On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:08 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> Mike
> I agree this is probably tapping into the same processes.
> You mentioned that taking this perspective seriously has repercussions for
> how our understandings of development and also has implications for moral
> issues. Mike in an earlier post you mentioned this topic on
> temporality could open up a conversation on the implications of tapping
> into the future oriented nature of perception?  In what ways do you see
> this shift in perspective having an impact on our understanding of living
> in the world?
>
> Larry
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 4:23 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Larry-- I believe that what you are referring to potential experiencing is
>> perhaps another way of tapping into the Zinchenko insistence on the
>> "future
>> oriented" nature of perception.
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Monica, thanks for this appreciation.  Yes, at times I also feel like
>> I'm
>> > just chasing my tail. However with the insight that "trying to figure it
>> > all out" is actually just good conversation and fellowship with both the
>> > biologically living and our ancestors who are still "alive", there is a
>> > shift in the quest for "knowing" that is experienced more like a form of
>> > playing.
>> >
>> > I'm also grounded by having a grand daughter Elena, [now 17 months]
>>  who I
>> > experience as dancing through life, moving between security needs and
>> > exploratory needs, and I intuitively sense that the "dance" WE are
>> > participating in is moving between security and exploration. When Elena
>> > PAUSES in her explorations, and  checks in with mom, dad, grandma, or
>> > grandpa, and then is off again to engage with objects this PAUSE is
>> > foundational for re-orienting to further POTENTIAL exploring with
>> > fascination and delight.  THE POTENTIAL EXPERIENCE expressed in this
>> > relational dancing through life is palpable.
>> >
>> >  I often wonder, when sharing this lived experience of vitality with
>> Elena,
>> > if there is a deeper truth about our human nature being expressed in
>> this
>> > dance of  POTENTIAL existence? As the person and world become more
>> > complex with further development can life remain playfull as it changes
>> its
>> > form and structure?  As I'm "chasing my tail" can I delight in the chase
>> > instead of always seeing it as a struggle?  Monica, maybe it requires a
>> > great deal of struggle and hard difficult work to return to this place
>> of
>> > playing.  I don't know.
>> >
>> > Part of the experience of "chasing my tail" is the recognition that
>> > participating in the dance with my grand daughter may not be
>> participating
>> > in "transforming" the world.  My hesitant response is the practice of
>> > dancing with my grand daughter is also developing knowlege which is
>> > phronesis and THIS knowlege can be USED in the schools I work in and
>> also
>> > inform my conversations with others.  These practices, which also USE
>> > "techne" and "theory" [other forms of knowing] are  informed by my
>> > knowledge gained dancing with my grand daughter.
>> >
>> > Just musings on "chasing my tail"
>> >
>> > Larry
>> >
>> > On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 1:05 PM, monica.hansen <
>> > monica.hansen@vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:
>> >
>> > > Larry,
>> > > I like this view or interpretation of writing because it allows for
>> > signs,
>> > > or representations of meaning, to be "real"--that quality being
>> shared in
>> > > the process of communicating--but not fixed. Knowledge or ideas have
>> the
>> > > same quality and should not be confused with actual structures in
>> brain,
>> > > memory, or mind. Structures exist, but they are responsible for the
>> > > experience of making meaning or "knowing". I appreciate, as always,
>> > Larry,
>> > > how much you read and carry your references into this discourse.
>> > >
>> > > For some of us it is really interesting trying to figure it all out
>> and
>> > > using different approaches to do so, but you can see how for others
>> it is
>> > > just like a dog chasing its tail.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Monica
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ________________________________________
>> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] on
>> > behalf
>> > > of Larry Purss [lpscholar2@gmail.com]
>> > > Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 6:50 AM
>> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>> > > Subject: [xmca] Further reflections on "temporality" and generativity
>> > >
>> > > Mike, and Haydi
>> > >
>> > > The question on activity and reflectivity and its relation to
>> temporality
>> > > is the question Mike posed.
>> > >
>> > >  I didn't want to take the focus off Haydi's further elaboration of
>> > > Vasilyk so I'm posting this thought on POTENTIAL EXISTENCE and signs.
>> > from
>> > >  Eugene Halton [article is Pragmatic E-Pistols on Greg's post] Halton
>> > >  writes,
>> > >
>> > > Signs involve existence but are NOT reducible to existence, for their
>> > being
>> > > lies in their being interpreted. in a FUTURE interpretation: in
>> > continuing
>> > > semiosis. So that a SELF or a sign has a REALITY at any GIVEN MOMENT
>> as a
>> > > POTENTIAL EXISTENCE, in Peirce's terms" page 46.
>> > >
>> > > Potential existence, dialogically, as interpreted.  This dialogical
>> > > "interpretation" can be DISTINGUISHED and COME INTO EXISTENCE through
>> > > "thinking" [reflecting] or through conversation [reflecting] with
>> others
>> > > [both forms can be encounters with alterity]  Writing is another form
>> of
>> > > encountering dialogical alterity to express POTENTIAL existence.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > In other words systems and traditions and concepts [cultural
>> > > historical reality] can be USED within the GIVEN MOMENT as signs
>> within
>> > > shared understanding LEADING TO POTENTIAL self-understanding ARISING
>> > within
>> > > shared understanding.
>> > >
>> > > Mike & Haydi , this is one possibility of the temporal sequence of the
>> > > lived world expressed within humanness.
>> > >
>> > > Larry
>> > > __________________________________________
>> > > _____
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>> > >
>> > >
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>
>

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