[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
[xmca] RE: catharsis and category, OR to hell with "category" as "dramatic collision"! :) (Anton Yasnitsky)
Dear XMCA
participants.
I was deeply impressed
by the quality of discussion you have about “kategoria” in Vygotsky’s general
law. I appreciate your interest to my modest video-lecture.
Academic standards of your
discussion is extremely high, especially when the participants use expressions
like “fairly idiosyncratic interpretation” or “to hell with “category” as
dramatic collision” and so on. Yasnitsky sends to hell the category as dramatic
collision and quots Vygotsky. OK. I also would like to quote. On the same page
and in the same paragraph of the Collected Works, Volume 4, after the
formulation of the general law Vygotsky writes: “From here one of the basic principle…is the
principle of division of functions among the people….experimental unfolding of
a higher mental process into the drama that occurs among people”. So, Vygotsky
defines the social relation (inter-mental) as kategoria, and (2) as “drama that
occurs among people”. So, kategoria means
drama among people, that is exactly what Vygotsky said. So, it is not “Vygotsky
without Vygotsky, according to Veresov or the law without kategoria” as Yasnitsky
puts it. Not at all, Vygotsky without kategoria is Vygotsky without Vygotsky.
The choice is easy – to take Vygotsky with the kategoria or to take Vygotsky
without Vygotsky. In other words, the choice is to take Vygotsky with “development as
drama”, or to take Vygotsky without “development as drama”. Simply, to take Vygotsky
with development or to take him without development. Before sending
something/somebody to hell check yourself, probably you are already there.
With respect and
appreciation to the community
Nikolai Veresov
> From: xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu
> Subject: xmca Digest, Vol 73, Issue 13
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:00:08 -0700
>
> Send xmca mailing list submissions to
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> xmca-request@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> xmca-owner@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of xmca digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. help-me (Joao)
> 2. Re: help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions (Anton Yasnitsky)
> 3. RE: help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions (Joao)
> 4. Re: help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions (mike cole)
> 5. Re: Word Meaning and Concept (David Kellogg)
> 6. RE: help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions (Peter Smagorinsky)
> 7. Re: Word Meaning and Concept (Huw Lloyd)
> 8. Re: help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions (Anton Yasnitsky)
> 9. Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring
> Connections Between People and Ideas (Anton Yasnitsky)
> 10. RE: Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas (Peter Smagorinsky)
> 11. Re: catharsis and category (Andy Blunden)
> 12. Re: Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas (Anton Yasnitsky)
> 13. RE: Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas (Peter Smagorinsky)
> 14. Re: Word Meaning and Concept (Peter Feigenbaum)
> 15. Re: catharsis and category, OR to hell with "category" as
> "dramatic collision"! :) (Anton Yasnitsky)
> 16. Re: catharsis and category (Robert Lake)
> 17. Re: Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas (mike cole)
> 18. Re: catharsis and category (mike cole)
> 19. Re: Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas (Anton Yasnitsky)
> 20. Re: Word Meaning and Concept (mike cole)
> 21. Re: Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas (mike cole)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 18:34:22 -0300
> From: "Joao" <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> Subject: [xmca] help-me
> To: "'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <00a201cc2a11$ae5309f0$0af91dd0$@sercomtel.com.br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> People... i need of text
> Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal of
> Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> November-December 2000
>
> Can Someone help-me?
>
> Thanks
>
> João Martins
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 15:43:56 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <572981.36983.qm@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> Subject: [xmca] help-me
>
> People... i need of text
> Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal of
> Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> November-December 2000
>
> Can Someone help-me?
>
> Thanks
>
> João Martins
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: 6. Rudneva (2000). Vygotsky's Pedological
> Distortions.pdf
> Type: application/pdf
> Size: 1300763 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca/attachments/20110613/afef26e1/6.Rudneva2000.VygotskysPedologicalDistortions-0001.pdf
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 22:01:49 -0300
> From: "Joao" <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
> To: "'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <00e101cc2a2e$a7c1cd20$f7456760$@sercomtel.com.br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks, Anton
>
>
> João Martins
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> Subject: [xmca] help-me
>
> People... i need of text
> Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal of
> Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> November-December 2000
>
> Can Someone help-me?
>
> Thanks
>
> João Martins
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:05:40 -0700
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikYw=mXHB2PGJSNjA1dXdv7X-hpKA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 21:16:15 -0700 (PDT)
> From: David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Word Meaning and Concept
> To: Culture ActivityeXtended Mind <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <10654.57673.qm@web110309.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Huw:
> Â
> I want to try to use your distinction between time-bearing utterances and timeless thoughts to clear up a problem I have with Chapter Seven of Thinking and Speech.
> Â
> Your nudge explains almost perfectly why Volosinov says that "theme" (that is, sense) is an aspect of an utterance, but "meaning" (that is, signification) belongs only to individual words. "Dog" has meaning, but not theme. "Look! There's a dog! (and it's about to bite you!" has theme, but not (taken as a whole utterance) meaning.
> Â
> Now, I know from Chapter Seven that inner speech is mostly theme/sense. That explains why it is reduced to predication (just like the external speech utterance "Look!"). But...Is INNER SPEECH a definite stage in the transition from thinking to speaking, or is it really ONLY a distinct moment in the transition from listening (to another person speaking) to understanding?
> Â
> On the one hand, Vygotsky says, at the very end of Section Two:"Thinking printes the mark of a logical accent (that is, utterance stress--DK) on one of the words of a sentence, putting in relief in this way the psychological predicate, without which the whole sentence is incomprehensible. Speaking, therefore, implies a passage from the internal plane to the external plane, and understanding supposes the inverse movement, from the external plane of speech to the inner one."
> Â
> On the other hand, Vygotsky says this, in the tenth paragraph of Section Three:
> Â
> "External speech is a process of transforming thinking into words, of its materialization, its objectiization. Inner speech is a process in the opposite direction, which goes from the exterior to the interior, a process of volatilization of speech into thinking. And it is from this that we get everything which distinguishes it from the structure of external speech."
> Â
> THAT makes it sound like inner speech is part of comprehension and not part of production! But that cannot be right.
>
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
>
> --- On Mon, 6/13/11, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Word Meaning and Concept
> To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Monday, June 13, 2011, 8:21 AM
>
>
> On 13 June 2011 04:42, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > That is to compacted and complicated for me to be able to gloss to myself,
> > David.
> > I am struggling with the polysemy of both "meaning" and "concept" in this
> > discussion to make sense of their relationship very well. Ditto sign and
> > symbol, although Huw's
> > note about signs and shadows nudged me along. I noted that Anton referred
> > in
> > a recent note to "tool and sign/symbol" and wondered what he meant, but was
> > too preoccupied to ruminate.
> >
> > Here is a thought I had while ruminating. Might it be appropriate to say
> > that meaning is a tool of human processes of concept formation ?
> >
> >
> Yes, I think so.
>
> Re nudges, you might like to consider that analog phenomena occurs in
> parallel (all at once), whilst the non-analogical aspects of speech and text
> are sequential. In other words, speech is a serialized description of a
> plan.
>
> Words, word meanings, predicates and propositions serve the function of
> (sequential, serialized) description. Describing is a particular kind of
> action, or activity. Concepts are used to regulate (coordinate) action.
>
> In this context, I think it would be useful to distinguish word meanings
> from sentence meanings, such as the child's utterance of "Dog!", i.e.
> "There's a dog!"
>
> Huw
>
>
> > mike
> >
> > PS- There was a fascinating segment on the American Evening TV Program, 60
> > minutes, this evening.. A controversy about "The N word" , the banning of
> > Huck Finn, and the success of a book which substitutes the word "slave" for
> > the word "nigger." One proponent of the argument for using slave was
> > teacher
> > who is shown in class discussing "the n word", asking her class, "why do we
> > say the N word instead of 'n-i-g-g-e-r' spelling it out?"
> >
> > Now THERE is an example of the power of the book!! At least I am not alone
> > in my
> > confusions about such matters. :-))
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > >Â This is Evald Ilyenkov, "The Concept of the Ideal', in "The Ideal in
> > Human
> > > Activity", Pacifica, CA: MIA, p. 268:
> > >
> > > "The meaning of the term 'ideal' in Marx and Hegel is the same, but the
> > > concepts, i.e. the ways of understanding the 'same' meaning are
> > profoundly
> > > different. After all the word 'concept' in dialectically interpreted
> > logic
> > > is a synonym for understanding the essence of the' matter, the essence of
> > > phenomena which are only outlined by a given term; it is by no means a
> > > synonym for 'the meaning of the term' which may be formally interpreted
> > as
> > > the sum total of 'attributes' of the phenomena to which the term is
> > > applied."
> > >
> > > Ilyenkov then goes on to discuss Marx's cuckoo-like propensity "not to
> > > change the historically formed 'meanings of terms'" but to propose very
> > > different understandings thereof, and thus to change the very concept.
> > >
> > > Three questions:
> > >
> > > a)Â In addition to the ONTOGENETIC argument against the equation of
> > meaning
> > > and concept (viz. that if meaning were already equivalent to concept then
> > > meaning could not develop into a concept), can't we make a SOCIOGENETIC
> > one?
> > > Doesn’t this sociogenetic argument explain both the cultural adaptation
> > of
> > > concepts over time (e.g. “quantity� into “operator� in math, “grammar�
> > into
> > > “discourse� in linguistics) and the cuckoo like exaptation of other
> > people’s
> > > terms to express quite different concepts by Marx and by Vygotsky (e.g.
> > > "egocentric", "pseudoconcept", etc.)?
> > >
> > > b) Viewed sociogenetically, isn't this distinction between conceptual
> > > essence and word meaning the same as the distinction between
> > signification
> > > value and sense value? That is, from the point of view of Johnson's
> > > dictionary (or the Kangxi dictionary, or the Port Royal grammar, or any
> > > other state codification of meaning) the state-ratified meaning of words
> > is
> > > their essence and the other, vernacular uses are simply senses, folk
> > values,
> > > the range of phenomena to which hoi polloi apply the words?
> > >
> > > b) Isn't the OPPOSITE true when we look at the matter microgenetically?
> > > That is, from the point of view of interpersonal meaning making, the
> > essence
> > > of the phenomenon to which I apply the term in the given instance is the
> > > self-legitimated, auto-ratified, individually-approved sense value and
> > the
> > > signification value is simply the range of conventional meanings, the
> > range
> > > of conventional phenomena to which the word is applied and misapplied by
> > > others?
> > >
> > > David Kellogg
> > > Seoul National University of Education
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:18:56 +0000
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <D978F610641CB249AE42B883A3CC3B7F149E0864@SN2PRD0202MB127.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell out of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in 1937 originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the complaint.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 13:17:37 +0100
> From: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Word Meaning and Concept
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikP1iJ5Ag_cdr3YxNTVoZ2zzTotPA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On 14 June 2011 05:16, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Huw:
> >
> > I want to try to use your distinction between time-bearing utterances and
> > timeless thoughts to clear up a problem I have with Chapter Seven
> > of Thinking and Speech.
> >
>
>
> Hi David,
>
> I think timelessness is something else and could introduce more confusions.
> What I referred to as a 'plan' was the presentation of a representation. A
> difference between a diagram of furniture in a room and a spoken description
> is that speech is serialized.
>
>
> >
> > Your nudge explains almost perfectly why Volosinov says that "theme" (that
> > is, sense) is an aspect of an utterance, but "meaning" (that is,
> > signification) belongs only to individual words. "Dog" has meaning, but not
> > theme. "Look! There's a dog! (and it's about to bite you!" has theme, but
> > not (taken as a whole utterance) meaning.
> >
>
> I'd say it depends on how you use meaning. Words (in narrative form
> atleast) have accepted signification. Though we often use meaning
> synonymously with intention.
>
> If you said that sentence meaning arises out of placing word meanings (like
> furniture) in a theme/intention, then I agree that this seems to have
> something going for it.
>
> Tone and contextual meaning can provide an intensive/thematic meaning
> (though words too fall into distinct usage patterns of theme and register).
>
> In addition to the affordances and constraints of each word in structuring
> the sentence, there is also the focus of interpretation to be taken account
> of such as the phrase "Go to bed!" with "Go-to-bed!" It is not necessary to
> understand all the distinct words in order to have a reasonable
> understanding of the intention.
>
>
> >
> > Now, I know from Chapter Seven that inner speech is mostly theme/sense.
> > That explains why it is reduced to predication (just like the external
> > speech utterance "Look!"). But...Is INNER SPEECH a definite stage in the
> > transition from thinking to speaking, or is it really ONLY a distinct moment
> > in the transition from listening (to another person speaking) to
> > understanding?
> >
>
> Even with the minimal view of inner speech as placeholder (something I'm not
> asserting), like counting on one's fingers, it remains an important link.
> Perhaps my use of 'description' suggested an (unintended) orthogonal aspect
> to thinking?
>
>
> >
> > On the one hand, Vygotsky says, at the very end of Section Two:"Thinking
> > printes the mark of a logical accent (that is, utterance stress--DK) on one
> > of the words of a sentence, putting in relief in this way the psychological
> > predicate, without which the whole sentence is incomprehensible. Speaking,
> > therefore, implies a passage from the internal plane to the external plane,
> > and understanding supposes the inverse movement, from the external plane of
> > speech to the inner one."
> >
> > On the other hand, Vygotsky says this, in the tenth paragraph of Section
> > Three:
> >
> > "External speech is a process of transforming thinking into words, of its
> > materialization, its objectiization. Inner speech is a process in the
> > opposite direction, which goes from the exterior to the interior, a process
> > of volatilization of speech into thinking. And it is from this that we get
> > everything which distinguishes it from the structure of external speech."
> >
> > THAT makes it sound like inner speech is part of comprehension and not part
> > of production! But that cannot be right.
> >
>
> One can produce in the process of comprehension. In comprehending a
> statement I may first wish to create simpler versions (perhaps only
> meaningful to me). We need to distinguish the phenomena from the system
> that it participates in.
>
> Huw
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 05:57:56 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <120475.66056.qm@web30804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> No problem.
>
>
> Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to understand
> that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936 was
> truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still alive --
> followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age" first
> appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., &
> Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, vol.
> VII, but I am not so sure about that.
>
> Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other individuals
> that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite likely
> targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but chances
> are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially than
> theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time please
> see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European Psychology
> that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number 6 /
> November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
>
> http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
> OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time, luckily,
> both)
>
> FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and from
> January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell out
> of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in 1937
> originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> complaint.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
> Of mike cole
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:50:08 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Subject: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <633686.28386.qm@web30802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative theory.
>
>
> I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky Circle
> has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
>
> Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological and
> Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
>
> The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five of them,
> are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out, I
> guess... :)
>
> I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group of
> scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The rationale
> for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the urgent
> need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky & Co's
> integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain, and
> behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
>
> van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still Needs
> to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
>
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> No problem.
>
>
> Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to understand
> that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936 was
> truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still alive --
>
> followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age" first
> appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., &
> Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, vol.
> VII, but I am not so sure about that.
>
> Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other individuals
> that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite likely
> targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but chances
> are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially than
> theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time please
> see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European Psychology
> that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number 6 /
> November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
>
> http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
>
> OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time, luckily,
> both)
>
> FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and from
> January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell out
> of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in 1937
> originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> complaint.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
>
> Of mike cole
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 14:44:17 +0000
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <D978F610641CB249AE42B883A3CC3B7F149E0C90@SN2PRD0202MB127.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Anton, I got the following message when I went to retrieve this article:
> Access to this Content is Restricted
> This content is secured to subscribers. Options for obtaining access to this content are indicated below.
>
> Buy Online Access to this Article
> Buy Online Access to this Article
> Individual Article (Electronic Only)
>
> USD 34.95
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:50 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative theory.
>
>
> I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky Circle
> has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
>
> Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological and
> Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
>
> The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five of them,
> are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out, I
> guess... :)
>
> I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group of
> scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The rationale
> for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the urgent
> need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky & Co's
> integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain, and
> behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
>
> van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still Needs
> to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
>
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> No problem.
>
>
> Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to understand
> that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936 was
> truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still alive --
>
> followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age" first
> appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., &
> Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, vol.
> VII, but I am not so sure about that.
>
> Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other individuals
> that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite likely
> targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but chances
> are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially than
> theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time please
> see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European Psychology
> that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number 6 /
> November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
>
> http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
>
> OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time, luckily,
> both)
>
> FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and from
> January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell out
> of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in 1937
> originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> complaint.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
>
> Of mike cole
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:51:12 +1000
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] catharsis and category
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <4DF77560.7090003@mira.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I should report on the outcome of my investigations of this question.
> Nikolai Veresov and I have met and agreed only that we cannot agree, so,
> so far as I know he retains his position, but I will leave it Nikolai to
> say what that is. I cannot speak for him.
>
> However, I have verified that the word /kategoria/, was translated from
> Greek via Latin into English as "predicament" and from 1580, meant
> "predicament" in the sense of a "problematic situation" and whatismore
> "kategoria" is used to this day in Rhetoric and in a broadly similar
> sense, but only in highly specialist discourses. Not "category," just
> "kategoria." There is some evidence also that kategoria is used in the
> theory of theatre in a similar sense to this day. So, I have to give
> some plausibility to the claim that the word had such a sense in
> Vygotsky's circle of theatrical friends in Moscow before he went into
> psychology, but I cannot document it from that time. "Predicement"
> remains the technical word in theatre for the situation from which a
> plot develops, the source of the basic tension which drives the story. I
> have long been of the view, on the basis of reading Volume 5 of the LSV
> CW, that the "social situation of development" can be characterised in
> Vygotsky's view, as a "predicament." But I made the connection with a
> Marxist view of history, not the theory of theatre.
>
> On Catharsis, I have found the source of this concept in Freud and an
> article by Freud is attached. It is called "working through" in this
> article. Interesting. It makes sense.
>
> Thank you Anton, and Huw for your insights,
> Andy
>
> Andy Blunden wrote:
> > Thank you Huw. Very encrouaging. "Resolution" seems to capture a lot
> > of it.
> >
> > I have consulted the OED On-line for "*category*" and found nothing
> > surprising about its meaning, as used by Aristotle and Kant and in
> > mathematics, more or less meaning "class" but extendable to abstract
> > concepts. But what OED did tell me, which adds yet another intriguing
> > thread to the puzzle, is that its Latin roots mean "predicament," and
> > in olden days, "category" used to be translated as "predicament."
> >
> > Now "predicament" here is related to "predicate" as in subject and
> > predicate, a key metaphysical distinction for Aristotle and dialectics
> > generally, but it forces me to reflect on the relation of
> > "predicament" - and therefore "category" - to "situation", as in
> > "social situation of development," which I have always said, based on
> > how Vygotsky uses the term, should be understood as a "predicament,"
> > but in the common usage of this word as a situation or trap, from
> > which one must make a development in order to escape.
> >
> > *Catharsis*, according to OED is the Greek word meaning "cleansing" or
> > "purging," which is of course what is commonly understood by the word.
> > With reference to Aristotle is means "the purification of the emotions
> > by vicarious experience." Vicarious!? The Freudian usage you referred
> > to (thank you), Huw, is "The process of relieving an abnormal
> > excitement by re-establishing the association of the emotion with the
> > memory or idea of the event which was the first cause of it, and of
> > eliminating it by abreaction." This sounds very much like how I have
> > understood Vygotsky to be using the term!!
> >
> >
> > All that is fine. A true detective story, as Anton says! But what is
> > the Russian word which is a unity of these disparate concepts??!!
> >
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Huw Lloyd wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9 June 2011 08:24, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been watching Nikolai Veresov's videos on vimeo. I refer to
> >> No. 2 in particular: http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/videos/10226589
> >> In this talk, Nikolai is explaining his view of the development of
> >> Vygotsky's theory of the development of the high mental functions
> >> through the appropriation of social functions, and in doing so, he
> >> appears to be mistaking the English word "category" for the
> >> English word "catharsis."
> >>
> >>
> >> I think that there is an issue with the English (Freudian) use of
> >> "catharsis" that refers to expression without genuine influence,
> >> which a) I don't think is cathartic and b) not what was intended in
> >> psychology of art, i.e. achieving, or identifying with, a genuine
> >> change (or resolution), even if only a resolution of a staged
> >> performance (identification), or some other art.
> >>
> >> This notion of "real" catharsis then becomes more related to the
> >> notion of category.
> >>
> >> In my studies and thinking I have been happy with Nikolai's use of
> >> the term category and it's relation to stage. With respect to
> >> plan/plane correspondences there are several overlapping aspects,
> >> which seem to be quite precisely captured by this otherwise ambiguous
> >> term (joint context, intention and topological representation).
> >>
> >> The dramatic conflict (category) has correspondence with
> >> (distributed) self-organisation. The social participation of
> >> emotionally led behaviour leads to structured forms of participation,
> >> e.g. acquiring new coordinating structures in the process of
> >> achieving one's goals.
> >>
> >> Huw
> >
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Joint Editor MCA:
> http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
> MIA: http://www.marxists.org
> -------------- next part --------------
> A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
> Name: Freud-Working through.doc
> Type: application/msword
> Size: 64000 bytes
> Desc: not available
> Url : http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca/attachments/20110615/b738929e/Freud-Workingthrough-0001.doc
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 08:17:25 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <228326.27565.qm@web30804.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Right Peter, that's what it is: the paper was published as Online First, but not
> as Open Access (unlike the What needs to be done paper that can be found in both
> categories, i.e. is freely accessible 24/7). So, the paper seems to be
> accessible only through University portals, which it true, though, only for
> those Universities that have subscription to the service at Springer. However,
> here is the trick for those who would like to get the access to the paper.
>
>
> I am not sure if I am legally entitled to upload a copy of the paper on my web,
> but, according to the email I got from Springer, --
>
> "We encourage you to forward this email to your co-authors and colleagues or
> mention your article and its DOI on your website or your social media profiles."
>
> Thus, let me *forward this email* to this list: inside one will be able to find
> a link to the full text of the paper, --note: --valid for 4 weeks only.
> Hopefully, the link works for anybody, but not just for me. Please feel free to
> have a look at the paper, I hope it might deserve your attention.
>
> Best,
> Anton
>
> Please see the forwarded message below the line:
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Springer <SpringerAlerts@springeronline.com>
> Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:20 PM
> Subject: Your article in Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science is now
> online at SpringerLink
> To: anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com
> Cc: springeralert@springer.com
>
>
>
>
> Electronic publication of your article 14.06.2011
> visit us at springer.com
>
> Congratulations
>
> Dear
> Dr. Yasnitsky,
>
> Congratulations, your article
>
> Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring Connections Between
> People and Ideas
>
>
> has just been published and is now as 'Online First' on SpringerLink
> http://www.springerlink.com/openurl.asp?genre=article&id=doi:10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
>
> It is fully accessible to libraries, institutions and their patrons that have
> purchased a SpringerLink license. If your article is published under one of our
> Open Access programs it will be freely accessible to any user.
>
> Citation Information
> Being an 'Online First' article, your paper is now available and is fully
> citable even before the journal's full issue has been compiled! Your article can
> be cited by its unique Digital Object Identifier (DOI) 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> in the following form:
>
> Author, Journal Title, Year, DOI
> After inclusion of your article in the paginated issue, please continue to use
> the DOI alongside the usual citation details in order to enable readers to
> easily find the article in print and online.
>
> Download Your e-Offprint (PDF file)
> Your electronic offprint is now available! Download your PDF file using the
> following link:
>
> http://www.springer.com/home?SGWID=0-0-1003-0-0&aqId=1811333&download=1&checkval=0907c49169f19f7eba2658bf481c1bb9
>
>
> If the PDF file does not open automatically, please copy and paste the link URL
> into your browser window. Please note that your free e-offprint will only be
> available for four weeks!
>
>
> Any additional (printed) offprints you might have ordered will become available
> after the production of the full journal
> issue your article has been assigned to.
>
> We encourage you to forward this email to your co-authors and colleagues or
> mention your article and its DOI on your website or your social media profiles.
>
> Thank you again for your contribution. We hope that your experience of
> publishing with Springer was a satisfying one
> and look forward to your future contributions! For more
> information about publishing with us, visit our author website at
> springer.com/authors, where you will find
> valuable services. If you have any questions, just contact our Author Helpdesk
>
> Best regards,
> Your Springer Marketing Team
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 10:44:17 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring
> Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> Anton, I got the following message when I went to retrieve this article:
> Access to this Content is Restricted
> This content is secured to subscribers. Options for obtaining access to this
> content are indicated below.
>
>
> Buy Online Access to this Article
> Buy Online Access to this Article
> Individual Article (Electronic Only)
>
> USD 34.95
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
> Of Anton Yasnitsky
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:50 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring
> Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative theory.
>
>
> I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky Circle
>
> has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
>
> Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological and
> Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
>
> The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five of them,
>
> are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out, I
> guess... :)
>
> I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group of
> scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The rationale
> for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the urgent
> need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky & Co's
> integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain, and
> behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
>
> van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still Needs
> to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
>
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> No problem.
>
>
> Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to understand
> that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936 was
> truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still alive --
>
>
> followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age" first
> appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., &
> Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, vol.
> VII, but I am not so sure about that.
>
> Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other individuals
> that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite likely
> targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but chances
> are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially than
> theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time please
> see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European Psychology
> that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number 6 /
> November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
>
> http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
>
>
> OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time, luckily,
> both)
>
> FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and from
> January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell out
> of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in 1937
> originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> complaint.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
>
>
> Of mike cole
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:30:30 +0000
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID:
> <D978F610641CB249AE42B883A3CC3B7F149E0D3D@SN2PRD0202MB127.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Thanks Anton--that worked. I won't tell a soul. p
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 11:17 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> Right Peter, that's what it is: the paper was published as Online First, but not
> as Open Access (unlike the What needs to be done paper that can be found in both
> categories, i.e. is freely accessible 24/7). So, the paper seems to be
> accessible only through University portals, which it true, though, only for
> those Universities that have subscription to the service at Springer. However,
> here is the trick for those who would like to get the access to the paper.
>
>
> I am not sure if I am legally entitled to upload a copy of the paper on my web,
> but, according to the email I got from Springer, --
>
> "We encourage you to forward this email to your co-authors and colleagues or
> mention your article and its DOI on your website or your social media profiles."
>
> Thus, let me *forward this email* to this list: inside one will be able to find
> a link to the full text of the paper, --note: --valid for 4 weeks only.
> Hopefully, the link works for anybody, but not just for me. Please feel free to
> have a look at the paper, I hope it might deserve your attention.
>
> Best,
> Anton
>
> Please see the forwarded message below the line:
>
> ______________________________________________________________
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Springer <SpringerAlerts@springeronline.com>
> Date: Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:20 PM
> Subject: Your article in Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science is now
> online at SpringerLink
> To: anton.yasnitsky@gmail.com
> Cc: springeralert@springer.com
>
>
>
>
> Electronic publication of your article 14.06.2011
> visit us at springer.com
>
> Congratulations
>
> Dear
> Dr. Yasnitsky,
>
> Congratulations, your article
>
> Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring Connections Between
> People and Ideas
>
>
> has just been published and is now as 'Online First' on SpringerLink
> http://www.springerlink.com/openurl.asp?genre=article&id=doi:10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
>
> It is fully accessible to libraries, institutions and their patrons that have
> purchased a SpringerLink license. If your article is published under one of our
> Open Access programs it will be freely accessible to any user.
>
> Citation Information
> Being an 'Online First' article, your paper is now available and is fully
> citable even before the journal's full issue has been compiled! Your article can
> be cited by its unique Digital Object Identifier (DOI) 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> in the following form:
>
> Author, Journal Title, Year, DOI
> After inclusion of your article in the paginated issue, please continue to use
> the DOI alongside the usual citation details in order to enable readers to
> easily find the article in print and online.
>
> Download Your e-Offprint (PDF file)
> Your electronic offprint is now available! Download your PDF file using the
> following link:
>
> http://www.springer.com/home?SGWID=0-0-1003-0-0&aqId=1811333&download=1&checkval=0907c49169f19f7eba2658bf481c1bb9
>
>
> If the PDF file does not open automatically, please copy and paste the link URL
> into your browser window. Please note that your free e-offprint will only be
> available for four weeks!
>
>
> Any additional (printed) offprints you might have ordered will become available
> after the production of the full journal
> issue your article has been assigned to.
>
> We encourage you to forward this email to your co-authors and colleagues or
> mention your article and its DOI on your website or your social media profiles.
>
> Thank you again for your contribution. We hope that your experience of
> publishing with Springer was a satisfying one
> and look forward to your future contributions! For more
> information about publishing with us, visit our author website at
> springer.com/authors, where you will find
> valuable services. If you have any questions, just contact our Author Helpdesk
>
> Best regards,
> Your Springer Marketing Team
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 10:44:17 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring
> Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> Anton, I got the following message when I went to retrieve this article:
> Access to this Content is Restricted
> This content is secured to subscribers. Options for obtaining access to this
> content are indicated below.
>
>
> Buy Online Access to this Article
> Buy Online Access to this Article
> Individual Article (Electronic Only)
>
> USD 34.95
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
> Of Anton Yasnitsky
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 9:50 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring
> Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative theory.
>
>
> I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky Circle
>
> has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
>
> Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological and
> Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
>
> The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five of them,
>
> are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out, I
> guess... :)
>
> I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group of
> scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The rationale
> for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the urgent
> need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky & Co's
> integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain, and
> behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
>
> van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still Needs
> to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
>
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> No problem.
>
>
> Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to understand
> that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936 was
> truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still alive --
>
>
> followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age" first
> appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury, D., &
> Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology, vol.
> VII, but I am not so sure about that.
>
> Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other individuals
> that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite likely
> targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but chances
> are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially than
> theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time please
> see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European Psychology
> that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number 6 /
> November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
>
> http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
>
>
> OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time, luckily,
> both)
>
> FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and from
> January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell out
> of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in 1937
> originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> complaint.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On Behalf
>
>
> Of mike cole
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> Pedological Distortions
>
> Thanks Anton--
> Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> avoided lead poisoning!
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
>
> > Thanks, Anton
> >
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> >
> > People... i need of text
> > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > of
> > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > November-December 2000
> >
> > Can Someone help-me?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > João Martins
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:42:09 -0400
> From: Peter Feigenbaum <pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Word Meaning and Concept
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Cc: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> Message-ID:
> <OFB214D58C.B576D490-ON852578AF.004FA887-852578AF.00564973@fordham.edu>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/private/xmca/attachments/20110614/3ba69a64/attachment-0001.html
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 09:04:12 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] catharsis and category, OR to hell with "category"
> as "dramatic collision"! :)
> To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <155874.94564.qm@web30806.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Just a remark, on "kategoriia". The whole theory of "Psychology as drama" that
> Nikolai Veresov constructed is based on the idea of importance and a fairly
> idiosyncratic interpretation of a word "kategoriia" that occurs in a couple of
> Vygotsky's texts of 1930. Thus, I do not believe believe that Nikolai is going
> to easily withdraw from his position that creators of original theories
> typically defend until the last drops of their blood. If I am not mistaken, in
> his presentation Nikolai criticizes the Mind in Society for dropping this
> "kategoriia" word out of the "main law of development", which, by the way,
> Vygotsky quite correctly attributes to Pierre Janet. On the tape, in part 2 on
> vimeo online Dr. Veresov accuses in fatal inaccuracy the translators/creators of
> Mind in Society (1978) and goes as far as to claim that, quoting from the video
> lecture:
>
> ...the "Category" is the key word here. If you cut away the "category", the
> word "category" when you are translating, you are just killing the message, you
> are just killing the meaning of the law, of the formulation of the law (18:55
> -19:13).
> http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/videos/10226589
> [END of QUOTE]
>
> I assume this statement means that any reformulation of this "general law" of
> development without reference to "category"/"kategoriia" would kill the message,
> not necessarily as it applies to translating from Russian into English, as the
> presenter suggests. In other words, I interpret this as the statement that the
> law without "category"/"kategoriia" kills the distinctly Vygotskian meaning of
> the law.
>
> Well, fine. Please consider an example. Or, rather, a counter-example. One is
> invited to have a look at Vygotsky ... without Vygotsky :). Indeed so: in his
> seminal presentation on October 9, 1930, in which a new theoretical program of
> research on "psychological functions" was introduced, Vygotsky yet again
> presents this "law of development" (and I believe the restated "general law of
> development" can be easily recognized by anybody):
>
> [QUOTE]
> Russian:
> Изуча� проце��ы вы�ших функций у детей, мы пришли к �ледующему потр��шему на�
> выводу: в��ка� вы�ша� форма поведени� по�вл�ет�� в �воем развитии на �цене
> дважды - �перва как коллективна� форма поведени�, как функци�
> интерп�ихологиче�ка�, затем как функци� интрап�ихологиче�ка�, как изве�тный
> �по�об поведени�
> http://www.detskiysad.ru/medobozrenie/vigotskiy42.html
>
> Same thing in English:
>
> When we studied the processes of the higher functions in children we came to the
> following staggering conclusion: each higher form of behavior enters the scene
> twice in its development--first as a collective form of behavior, as an
> inter-psychological function, then as an intra-psychological function, as a
> certain way of behaving (Vygotsky, 1930/1997, p. 95)
>
> http://books.google.com/books?id=ZzjZMml-9ZgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Vygotsky+Collected+works&sig=R4AuWK2xgRIYObNOr68ECcQg0fA&source=gbs_book_other_versions_r&cad=2_0#v=snippet&q=When%20we%20studied%20the%20processes%20of%20the%20higher%20function%20in%20children%20we%20came%20to%20the%20following%20staggering%20conclusion%3A%20each%20higher%20form%20of%20behavior%20enters%20the%20scene%20twice%20in%20its%20development--first%20as%20a%20collective%20form%20of%20behavior%2C%20as%20an%20inter-psychological%20function%2C%20then%20as%20an%20intra-psychological%20function%2C%20as%20a%20certain%20way%20of%20behaving&f=false
>
> [END of QUOTE]
>
> Here it is: Vygotsky without Vygotsky, according to Veresov; or, alternatively,
> the law without "kategoriia/category", -- choose whatever you like.
>
> Another argument against the revelation of "category" in Vygotsky would be that
> the word appears quite a lot of times in the texts of Vygotsky, -- and even
> beside his formulation of general law -- in purely normal, traditional and
> canonical usage, that is, meaning just what it is: a "category". But that would
> be too much: Vygotsky's quote above without any "category" whatsoever should
> suffice.
>
>
> AY
>
>
> PS For a similar discussion along these lines please feel free to check out a
> not so recent yet unfinished discussion online here:
> http://psyhistorik.livejournal.com/60277.html
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 10:51:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] catharsis and category
>
> I should report on the outcome of my investigations of this question. Nikolai
> Veresov and I have met and agreed only that we cannot agree, so, so far as I
> know he retains his position, but I will leave it Nikolai to say what that is. I
> cannot speak for him.
>
> However, I have verified that the word /kategoria/, was translated from Greek
> via Latin into English as "predicament" and from 1580, meant "predicament" in
> the sense of a "problematic situation" and whatismore "kategoria" is used to
> this day in Rhetoric and in a broadly similar sense, but only in highly
> specialist discourses. Not "category," just "kategoria." There is some evidence
> also that kategoria is used in the theory of theatre in a similar sense to this
> day. So, I have to give some plausibility to the claim that the word had such a
> sense in Vygotsky's circle of theatrical friends in Moscow before he went into
> psychology, but I cannot document it from that time. "Predicement" remains the
> technical word in theatre for the situation from which a plot develops, the
> source of the basic tension which drives the story. I have long been of the
> view, on the basis of reading Volume 5 of the LSV CW, that the "social situation
> of development" can be characterised in Vygotsky's view, as a "predicament." But
> I made the connection with a Marxist view of history, not the theory of theatre.
>
> On Catharsis, I have found the source of this concept in Freud and an article by
> Freud is attached. It is called "working through" in this article. Interesting.
> It makes sense.
>
> Thank you Anton, and Huw for your insights,
> Andy
>
> Andy Blunden wrote:
> > Thank you Huw. Very encrouaging. "Resolution" seems to capture a lot of it.
> >
> > I have consulted the OED On-line for "*category*" and found nothing surprising
> >about its meaning, as used by Aristotle and Kant and in mathematics, more or
> >less meaning "class" but extendable to abstract concepts. But what OED did tell
> >me, which adds yet another intriguing thread to the puzzle, is that its Latin
> >roots mean "predicament," and in olden days, "category" used to be translated as
> >"predicament."
> >
> > Now "predicament" here is related to "predicate" as in subject and predicate, a
> >key metaphysical distinction for Aristotle and dialectics generally, but it
> >forces me to reflect on the relation of "predicament" - and therefore "category"
> >- to "situation", as in "social situation of development," which I have always
> >said, based on how Vygotsky uses the term, should be understood as a
> >"predicament," but in the common usage of this word as a situation or trap, from
> >which one must make a development in order to escape.
> >
> > *Catharsis*, according to OED is the Greek word meaning "cleansing" or
> >"purging," which is of course what is commonly understood by the word. With
> >reference to Aristotle is means "the purification of the emotions by vicarious
> >experience." Vicarious!? The Freudian usage you referred to (thank you), Huw, is
> >"The process of relieving an abnormal excitement by re-establishing the
> >association of the emotion with the memory or idea of the event which was the
> >first cause of it, and of eliminating it by abreaction." This sounds very much
> >like how I have understood Vygotsky to be using the term!!
> >
> >
> > All that is fine. A true detective story, as Anton says! But what is the
> >Russian word which is a unity of these disparate concepts??!!
> >
> >
> > :)
> >
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Huw Lloyd wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 9 June 2011 08:24, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> >><mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>
> >> I have been watching Nikolai Veresov's videos on vimeo. I refer to
> >> No. 2 in particular: http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/videos/10226589
> >> In this talk, Nikolai is explaining his view of the development of
> >> Vygotsky's theory of the development of the high mental functions
> >> through the appropriation of social functions, and in doing so, he
> >> appears to be mistaking the English word "category" for the
> >> English word "catharsis."
> >>
> >>
> >> I think that there is an issue with the English (Freudian) use of "catharsis"
> >>that refers to expression without genuine influence, which a) I don't think is
> >>cathartic and b) not what was intended in psychology of art, i.e. achieving, or
> >>identifying with, a genuine change (or resolution), even if only a resolution of
> >>a staged performance (identification), or some other art.
> >>
> >> This notion of "real" catharsis then becomes more related to the notion of
> >>category.
> >>
> >> In my studies and thinking I have been happy with Nikolai's use of the term
> >>category and it's relation to stage. With respect to plan/plane correspondences
> >>there are several overlapping aspects, which seem to be quite precisely captured
> >>by this otherwise ambiguous term (joint context, intention and topological
> >>representation).
> >>
> >> The dramatic conflict (category) has correspondence with (distributed)
> >>self-organisation. The social participation of emotionally led behaviour leads
> >>to structured forms of participation, e.g. acquiring new coordinating structures
> >>in the process of achieving one's goals.
> >>
> >> Huw
> >
>
> -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Joint Editor MCA:
> http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
> MIA: http://www.marxists.org
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 12:56:26 -0400
> From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] catharsis and category
> To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTinY4tMDCaaDJPyyMo6J6oqhM2D9sA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Andy,
> I appreciate your trace of the history of this word and wonder if
> "category" in the theatrical sense might also be connected to LSV, and
> Stanislavsky's notion of genre ?
>
> *Robert L.
> *
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > I should report on the outcome of my investigations of this question.
> > Nikolai Veresov and I have met and agreed only that we cannot agree, so, so
> > far as I know he retains his position, but I will leave it Nikolai to say
> > what that is. I cannot speak for him.
> >
> > However, I have verified that the word /kategoria/, was translated from
> > Greek via Latin into English as "predicament" and from 1580, meant
> > "predicament" in the sense of a "problematic situation" and whatismore
> > "kategoria" is used to this day in Rhetoric and in a broadly similar sense,
> > but only in highly specialist discourses. Not "category," just "kategoria."
> > There is some evidence also that kategoria is used in the theory of theatre
> > in a similar sense to this day. So, I have to give some plausibility to the
> > claim that the word had such a sense in Vygotsky's circle of theatrical
> > friends in Moscow before he went into psychology, but I cannot document it
> > from that time. "Predicement" remains the technical word in theatre for the
> > situation from which a plot develops, the source of the basic tension which
> > drives the story. I have long been of the view, on the basis of reading
> > Volume 5 of the LSV CW, that the "social situation of development" can be
> > characterised in Vygotsky's view, as a "predicament." But I made the
> > connection with a Marxist view of history, not the theory of theatre.
> >
> > On Catharsis, I have found the source of this concept in Freud and an
> > article by Freud is attached. It is called "working through" in this
> > article. Interesting. It makes sense.
> >
> > Thank you Anton, and Huw for your insights,
> > Andy
> >
> > Andy Blunden wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you Huw. Very encrouaging. "Resolution" seems to capture a lot of
> >> it.
> >>
> >> I have consulted the OED On-line for "*category*" and found nothing
> >> surprising about its meaning, as used by Aristotle and Kant and in
> >> mathematics, more or less meaning "class" but extendable to abstract
> >> concepts. But what OED did tell me, which adds yet another intriguing thread
> >> to the puzzle, is that its Latin roots mean "predicament," and in olden
> >> days, "category" used to be translated as "predicament."
> >>
> >> Now "predicament" here is related to "predicate" as in subject and
> >> predicate, a key metaphysical distinction for Aristotle and dialectics
> >> generally, but it forces me to reflect on the relation of "predicament" -
> >> and therefore "category" - to "situation", as in "social situation of
> >> development," which I have always said, based on how Vygotsky uses the term,
> >> should be understood as a "predicament," but in the common usage of this
> >> word as a situation or trap, from which one must make a development in order
> >> to escape.
> >>
> >> *Catharsis*, according to OED is the Greek word meaning "cleansing" or
> >> "purging," which is of course what is commonly understood by the word. With
> >> reference to Aristotle is means "the purification of the emotions by
> >> vicarious experience." Vicarious!? The Freudian usage you referred to (thank
> >> you), Huw, is "The process of relieving an abnormal excitement by
> >> re-establishing the association of the emotion with the memory or idea of
> >> the event which was the first cause of it, and of eliminating it by
> >> abreaction." This sounds very much like how I have understood Vygotsky to
> >> be using the term!!
> >>
> >>
> >> All that is fine. A true detective story, as Anton says! But what is the
> >> Russian word which is a unity of these disparate concepts??!!
> >>
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Huw Lloyd wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 9 June 2011 08:24, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
> >>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have been watching Nikolai Veresov's videos on vimeo. I refer to
> >>> No. 2 in particular: http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/videos/10226589
> >>> In this talk, Nikolai is explaining his view of the development of
> >>> Vygotsky's theory of the development of the high mental functions
> >>> through the appropriation of social functions, and in doing so, he
> >>> appears to be mistaking the English word "category" for the
> >>> English word "catharsis."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think that there is an issue with the English (Freudian) use of
> >>> "catharsis" that refers to expression without genuine influence, which a) I
> >>> don't think is cathartic and b) not what was intended in psychology of art,
> >>> i.e. achieving, or identifying with, a genuine change (or resolution), even
> >>> if only a resolution of a staged performance (identification), or some other
> >>> art.
> >>>
> >>> This notion of "real" catharsis then becomes more related to the notion
> >>> of category.
> >>>
> >>> In my studies and thinking I have been happy with Nikolai's use of the
> >>> term category and it's relation to stage. With respect to plan/plane
> >>> correspondences there are several overlapping aspects, which seem to be
> >>> quite precisely captured by this otherwise ambiguous term (joint context,
> >>> intention and topological representation).
> >>>
> >>> The dramatic conflict (category) has correspondence with (distributed)
> >>> self-organisation. The social participation of emotionally led behaviour
> >>> leads to structured forms of participation, e.g. acquiring new coordinating
> >>> structures in the process of achieving one's goals.
> >>>
> >>> Huw
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Joint Editor MCA:
> > http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
> > MIA: http://www.marxists.org
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> *Assistant Professor
> Social Foundations of Education
> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> Georgia Southern University
> P. O. Box 8144
> Phone: (912) 478-5125
> Fax: (912) 478-5382
> Statesboro, GA 30460
>
> *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> midwife.*
> *-*John Dewey.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:00:15 -0700
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTik-y74g4STBZsQaDv6i+Qo2BWVQtg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Yes, Anton, I think it is safe to say that those critiques were socially
> motivated!
> Thanks for all the new materials.
> mike
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative
> > theory.
> >
> >
> > I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky
> > Circle
> > has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
> >
> > Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> > Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological
> > and
> > Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
> >
> > The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five of
> > them,
> > are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out, I
> > guess... :)
> >
> > I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> > investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group of
> > scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The
> > rationale
> > for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the
> > urgent
> > need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky &
> > Co's
> > integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain,
> > and
> > behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> > Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
> >
> > van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still
> > Needs
> > to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> > 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
> >
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> > No problem.
> >
> >
> > Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to
> > understand
> > that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936
> > was
> > truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still
> > alive --
> >
> > followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> > group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age"
> > first
> > appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> > Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury,
> > D., &
> > Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology,
> > vol.
> > VII, but I am not so sure about that.
> >
> > Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other
> > individuals
> > that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite
> > likely
> > targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> > followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> > Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> > truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> > carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but
> > chances
> > are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially
> > than
> > theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time
> > please
> > see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European
> > Psychology
> > that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number
> > 6 /
> > November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
> >
> >
> > http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
> >
> > OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> > seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time,
> > luckily,
> > both)
> >
> > FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and
> > from
> > January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> > Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell
> > out
> > of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in
> > 1937
> > originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> > complaint.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf
> >
> > Of mike cole
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> > Thanks Anton--
> > Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> > Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> > avoided lead poisoning!
> > mike
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, Anton
> > >
> > >
> > > João Martins
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > > Pedological Distortions
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> > >
> > > People... i need of text
> > > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > > of
> > > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > > November-December 2000
> > >
> > > Can Someone help-me?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > João Martins
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:11:17 -0700
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] catharsis and category
> To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=xsPSoO-z9Pz7Rzs5Q-Noon5NGMA@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> The entire discussion of extensions of Vygotsky into the domain of drama
> strikes me as full of promise, keeping in mind limitations of the dramatic
> metaphor that Yrjo has reminded us of being too easily cut away from its
> socio-economic-cultural context.
>
> And I like the idea of kategoria as predicament in the way you trace the
> term, Andy. And I especially like equating it with the social situation of
> development-as-experienced. I can
> provide personal testimony that it is a life long process!
> mike
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > I should report on the outcome of my investigations of this question.
> > Nikolai Veresov and I have met and agreed only that we cannot agree, so, so
> > far as I know he retains his position, but I will leave it Nikolai to say
> > what that is. I cannot speak for him.
> >
> > However, I have verified that the word /kategoria/, was translated from
> > Greek via Latin into English as "predicament" and from 1580, meant
> > "predicament" in the sense of a "problematic situation" and whatismore
> > "kategoria" is used to this day in Rhetoric and in a broadly similar sense,
> > but only in highly specialist discourses. Not "category," just "kategoria."
> > There is some evidence also that kategoria is used in the theory of theatre
> > in a similar sense to this day. So, I have to give some plausibility to the
> > claim that the word had such a sense in Vygotsky's circle of theatrical
> > friends in Moscow before he went into psychology, but I cannot document it
> > from that time. "Predicement" remains the technical word in theatre for the
> > situation from which a plot develops, the source of the basic tension which
> > drives the story. I have long been of the view, on the basis of reading
> > Volume 5 of the LSV CW, that the "social situation of development" can be
> > characterised in Vygotsky's view, as a "predicament." But I made the
> > connection with a Marxist view of history, not the theory of theatre.
> >
> > On Catharsis, I have found the source of this concept in Freud and an
> > article by Freud is attached. It is called "working through" in this
> > article. Interesting. It makes sense.
> >
> > Thank you Anton, and Huw for your insights,
> > Andy
> >
> >
> > Andy Blunden wrote:
> >
> >> Thank you Huw. Very encrouaging. "Resolution" seems to capture a lot of
> >> it.
> >>
> >> I have consulted the OED On-line for "*category*" and found nothing
> >> surprising about its meaning, as used by Aristotle and Kant and in
> >> mathematics, more or less meaning "class" but extendable to abstract
> >> concepts. But what OED did tell me, which adds yet another intriguing thread
> >> to the puzzle, is that its Latin roots mean "predicament," and in olden
> >> days, "category" used to be translated as "predicament."
> >>
> >> Now "predicament" here is related to "predicate" as in subject and
> >> predicate, a key metaphysical distinction for Aristotle and dialectics
> >> generally, but it forces me to reflect on the relation of "predicament" -
> >> and therefore "category" - to "situation", as in "social situation of
> >> development," which I have always said, based on how Vygotsky uses the term,
> >> should be understood as a "predicament," but in the common usage of this
> >> word as a situation or trap, from which one must make a development in order
> >> to escape.
> >>
> >> *Catharsis*, according to OED is the Greek word meaning "cleansing" or
> >> "purging," which is of course what is commonly understood by the word. With
> >> reference to Aristotle is means "the purification of the emotions by
> >> vicarious experience." Vicarious!? The Freudian usage you referred to (thank
> >> you), Huw, is "The process of relieving an abnormal excitement by
> >> re-establishing the association of the emotion with the memory or idea of
> >> the event which was the first cause of it, and of eliminating it by
> >> abreaction." This sounds very much like how I have understood Vygotsky to
> >> be using the term!!
> >>
> >>
> >> All that is fine. A true detective story, as Anton says! But what is the
> >> Russian word which is a unity of these disparate concepts??!!
> >>
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> Andy
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Huw Lloyd wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 9 June 2011 08:24, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
> >>> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have been watching Nikolai Veresov's videos on vimeo. I refer to
> >>> No. 2 in particular: http://vimeo.com/groups/chat/videos/10226589
> >>> In this talk, Nikolai is explaining his view of the development of
> >>> Vygotsky's theory of the development of the high mental functions
> >>> through the appropriation of social functions, and in doing so, he
> >>> appears to be mistaking the English word "category" for the
> >>> English word "catharsis."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I think that there is an issue with the English (Freudian) use of
> >>> "catharsis" that refers to expression without genuine influence, which a) I
> >>> don't think is cathartic and b) not what was intended in psychology of art,
> >>> i.e. achieving, or identifying with, a genuine change (or resolution), even
> >>> if only a resolution of a staged performance (identification), or some other
> >>> art.
> >>>
> >>> This notion of "real" catharsis then becomes more related to the notion
> >>> of category.
> >>>
> >>> In my studies and thinking I have been happy with Nikolai's use of the
> >>> term category and it's relation to stage. With respect to plan/plane
> >>> correspondences there are several overlapping aspects, which seem to be
> >>> quite precisely captured by this otherwise ambiguous term (joint context,
> >>> intention and topological representation).
> >>>
> >>> The dramatic conflict (category) has correspondence with (distributed)
> >>> self-organisation. The social participation of emotionally led behaviour
> >>> leads to structured forms of participation, e.g. acquiring new coordinating
> >>> structures in the process of achieving one's goals.
> >>>
> >>> Huw
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> > --
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > Joint Editor MCA:
> > http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/title~db=all~content=g932564744
> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
> > MIA: http://www.marxists.org
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:21:32 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: lchcmike@gmail.com, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <288046.45510.qm@web30803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Not only were they socially motivated, Mike, but also, as I argue, directed
> against not Vygotsky, dead by then, but against his socially successful former
> associates: Luria, Zankov, Elkonin et al.
>
> AY
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 1:00:15 PM
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars: Restoring
> Connections Between People and Ideas
>
> Yes, Anton, I think it is safe to say that those critiques were socially
> motivated!
> Thanks for all the new materials.
> mike
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative
> > theory.
> >
> >
> > I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky
> > Circle
> > has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
> >
> > Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> > Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological
> > and
> > Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
> >
> > The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five of
> > them,
> > are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out, I
> > guess... :)
> >
> > I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> > investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group of
> > scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The
> > rationale
> > for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the
> > urgent
> > need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky &
> > Co's
> > integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain,
> > and
> > behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> > Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
> >
> > van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still
> > Needs
> > to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> > 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> > http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
> >
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> > No problem.
> >
> >
> > Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to
> > understand
> > that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936
> > was
> > truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still
> > alive --
> >
> > followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by the
> > group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age"
> > first
> > appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist and
> > Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury,
> > D., &
> > Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology,
> > vol.
> > VII, but I am not so sure about that.
> >
> > Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other
> > individuals
> > that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite
> > likely
> > targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> > followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such as
> > Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do not
> > truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected the
> > carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but
> > chances
> > are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially
> > than
> > theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time
> > please
> > see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European
> > Psychology
> > that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38, Number
> > 6 /
> > November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European Psychology):
> >
> >
> >http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
> >6
> >
> > OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both links
> > seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time,
> > luckily,
> > both)
> >
> > FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and
> > from
> > January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> > Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> > Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV fell
> > out
> > of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published in
> > 1937
> > originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> > complaint.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu] On
> > Behalf
> >
> > Of mike cole
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > Pedological Distortions
> >
> > Thanks Anton--
> > Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> > Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> > avoided lead poisoning!
> > mike
> >
> > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
> >
> > > Thanks, Anton
> > >
> > >
> > > João Martins
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > > Pedological Distortions
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> > >
> > > People... i need of text
> > > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at Journal
> > > of
> > > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > > November-December 2000
> > >
> > > Can Someone help-me?
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > João Martins
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:23:59 -0700
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Word Meaning and Concept
> To: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikze47gNKaTgavU0hbQfDs4qP8QCg@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>
> Huw & Andy:
>
> How different are your interpretations?
> Andy points out that "Vygotsky says in several places that the word is the
> sign for or carrier of the concept" and goes on to say that meaning is
> action.
>
> Is this what you are saying, Huw, or that meanings are instruments of
> action?
>
> mike
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:21 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On 13 June 2011 04:42, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> That is to compacted and complicated for me to be able to gloss to myself,
> >> David.
> >> I am struggling with the polysemy of both "meaning" and "concept" in this
> >> discussion to make sense of their relationship very well. Ditto sign and
> >> symbol, although Huw's
> >> note about signs and shadows nudged me along. I noted that Anton referred
> >> in
> >> a recent note to "tool and sign/symbol" and wondered what he meant, but
> >> was
> >> too preoccupied to ruminate.
> >>
> >> Here is a thought I had while ruminating. Might it be appropriate to say
> >> that meaning is a tool of human processes of concept formation ?
> >>
> >>
> > Yes, I think so.
> >
> > Re nudges, you might like to consider that analog phenomena occurs in
> > parallel (all at once), whilst the non-analogical aspects of speech and text
> > are sequential. In other words, speech is a serialized description of a
> > plan.
> >
> > Words, word meanings, predicates and propositions serve the function of
> > (sequential, serialized) description. Describing is a particular kind of
> > action, or activity. Concepts are used to regulate (coordinate) action.
> >
> > In this context, I think it would be useful to distinguish word meanings
> > from sentence meanings, such as the child's utterance of "Dog!", i.e.
> > "There's a dog!"
> >
> > Huw
> >
> >
> >> mike
> >>
> >> PS- There was a fascinating segment on the American Evening TV Program, 60
> >> minutes, this evening.. A controversy about "The N word" , the banning of
> >> Huck Finn, and the success of a book which substitutes the word "slave"
> >> for
> >> the word "nigger." One proponent of the argument for using slave was
> >> teacher
> >> who is shown in class discussing "the n word", asking her class, "why do
> >> we
> >> say the N word instead of 'n-i-g-g-e-r' spelling it out?"
> >>
> >> Now THERE is an example of the power of the book!! At least I am not alone
> >> in my
> >> confusions about such matters. :-))
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 8:17 PM, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >> > This is Evald Ilyenkov, "The Concept of the Ideal', in "The Ideal in
> >> Human
> >> > Activity", Pacifica, CA: MIA, p. 268:
> >> >
> >> > "The meaning of the term 'ideal' in Marx and Hegel is the same, but the
> >> > concepts, i.e. the ways of understanding the 'same' meaning are
> >> profoundly
> >> > different. After all the word 'concept' in dialectically interpreted
> >> logic
> >> > is a synonym for understanding the essence of the' matter, the essence
> >> of
> >> > phenomena which are only outlined by a given term; it is by no means a
> >> > synonym for 'the meaning of the term' which may be formally interpreted
> >> as
> >> > the sum total of 'attributes' of the phenomena to which the term is
> >> > applied."
> >> >
> >> > Ilyenkov then goes on to discuss Marx's cuckoo-like propensity "not to
> >> > change the historically formed 'meanings of terms'" but to propose very
> >> > different understandings thereof, and thus to change the very concept.
> >> >
> >> > Three questions:
> >> >
> >> > a) In addition to the ONTOGENETIC argument against the equation of
> >> meaning
> >> > and concept (viz. that if meaning were already equivalent to concept
> >> then
> >> > meaning could not develop into a concept), can't we make a SOCIOGENETIC
> >> one?
> >> > Doesn’t this sociogenetic argument explain both the cultural adaptation
> >> of
> >> > concepts over time (e.g. “quantity” into “operator” in math, “grammar”
> >> into
> >> > “discourse” in linguistics) and the cuckoo like exaptation of other
> >> people’s
> >> > terms to express quite different concepts by Marx and by Vygotsky (e.g.
> >> > "egocentric", "pseudoconcept", etc.)?
> >> >
> >> > b) Viewed sociogenetically, isn't this distinction between conceptual
> >> > essence and word meaning the same as the distinction between
> >> signification
> >> > value and sense value? That is, from the point of view of Johnson's
> >> > dictionary (or the Kangxi dictionary, or the Port Royal grammar, or any
> >> > other state codification of meaning) the state-ratified meaning of words
> >> is
> >> > their essence and the other, vernacular uses are simply senses, folk
> >> values,
> >> > the range of phenomena to which hoi polloi apply the words?
> >> >
> >> > b) Isn't the OPPOSITE true when we look at the matter microgenetically?
> >> > That is, from the point of view of interpersonal meaning making, the
> >> essence
> >> > of the phenomenon to which I apply the term in the given instance is the
> >> > self-legitimated, auto-ratified, individually-approved sense value and
> >> the
> >> > signification value is simply the range of conventional meanings, the
> >> range
> >> > of conventional phenomena to which the word is applied and misapplied by
> >> > others?
> >> >
> >> > David Kellogg
> >> > Seoul National University of Education
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > __________________________________________
> >> > _____
> >> > xmca mailing list
> >> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >> >
> >> __________________________________________
> >> _____
> >> xmca mailing list
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:32:35 -0700
> From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas
> To: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimA5dA-9PRDSzAPiQ5dW9Nmp=gXOQ@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> That is what it means to be socially motivated, Anton! Nothing personal
> about it except for the targets who might take it personally.
>
> Citation patterns from about 1948-1956-mid 1960's might be interesting.
> mike
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 10:21 AM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>wrote:
>
> > Not only were they socially motivated, Mike, but also, as I argue, directed
> > against not Vygotsky, dead by then, but against his socially successful
> > former
> > associates: Luria, Zankov, Elkonin et al.
> >
> > AY
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 1:00:15 PM
> > Subject: Re: [xmca] Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> > Restoring
> > Connections Between People and Ideas
> >
> > Yes, Anton, I think it is safe to say that those critiques were socially
> > motivated!
> > Thanks for all the new materials.
> > mike
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:50 AM, Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com
> > >wrote:
> >
> > > P.S. Oh, yes, speaking of Vygotsky's followers and their integrative
> > > theory.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have just been informed that the previously announced paper on Vygotsky
> > > Circle
> > > has just been released as an Online First publication, see:
> > >
> > > Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky Circle as a Personal Network of Scholars:
> > > Restoring Connections Between People and Ideas. Integrative Psychological
> > > and
> > > Behavioral Science; DOI: 10.1007/s12124-011-9168-5
> > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/b34101p383588v95/
> > >
> > > The paper is quite long and fairly detailed, but the pictures, all five
> > of
> > > them,
> > > are really good and particularly loveable! Also, the Appendix stands out,
> > I
> > > guess... :)
> > >
> > > I believe this is the first ever study of its kind that systematically
> > > investigates the inter- and intra-group dynamics within the entire group
> > of
> > > scholars around Vygotsky during his lifetime and after his death. The
> > > rationale
> > > for such study was provided somewhere else: please see discussion of the
> > > urgent
> > > need in understanding collaborative and experimental aspects of Vygotsky
> > &
> > > Co's
> > > integrative science of cultural and biosocial development of mind, brain,
> > > and
> > > behaviour, closer to the end of the paper under the section "Programmatic
> > > Conclusion: What Needs to Be Done and How?" in
> > >
> > > van der Veer, R. & Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Vygotsky in English: What Still
> > > Needs
> > > to Be Done. Integrative Psychological and Behavioral Science; DOI:
> > > 10.1007/s12124-011-9172-9 @
> > > http://www.springerlink.com/content/278j5025767m2263/
> > >
> > >
> > > AY
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Anton Yasnitsky <the_yasya@yahoo.com>
> > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 8:57:56 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > > Pedological Distortions
> > >
> > > No problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > Speaking of Vygotsky "falling out of favor in Moscow", one needs to
> > > understand
> > > that, quite contrary to traditional fairly simplistic accounts, 1934-1936
> > > was
> > > truly a "Golden Age" for -- dead by then -- Vygotsky and his -- still
> > > alive --
> > >
> > > followers: lots of stuff, including Vygotsky's stuff, was published by
> > the
> > > group, for Vygotsky--posthumously. The discussion of this "Golden Age"
> > > first
> > > appears, I believe, in Yasnitsky, A. (2011). Lev Vygotsky: Philologist
> > and
> > > Defectologist, A Socio-intellectual Biography. In Pickren, W., Dewsbury,
> > > D., &
> > > Wertheimer, M. (Eds.). Portraits of Pioneers in Developmental Psychology,
> > > vol.
> > > VII, but I am not so sure about that.
> > >
> > > Thus, Rudneva's critique, as well as the critique of several other
> > > individuals
> > > that appears to have been directed at Vygotsky, despite appearance quite
> > > likely
> > > targeted not the dead man, but his socially and academically successful
> > > followers. Among others, most often several names were pronounced, such
> > as
> > > Luria, Zankov, Elkonin, Shif, and Leontiev. Thus, in other words, we do
> > not
> > > truly know what motivated these critiques and how they really affected
> > the
> > > carreers and, generally, the course of events back there and then, but
> > > chances
> > > are the critique was originally meant by their authors much more socially
> > > than
> > > theoretically. By the way, for other critical publications of that time
> > > please
> > > see a marvelous issue of the Journal of Russian and East European
> > > Psychology
> > > that Rene van der Veer published more than a decade ago (Volume 38,
> > Number
> > > 6 /
> > > November-December 2000 of Journal of Russian and East European
> > Psychology):
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > http://mesharpe.metapress.com/openurl.asp?genre=issue&issn=1061-0405&volume=38&issue=6
> > >6
> > >
> > > OR http://mesharpe.metapress.com/link.asp?id=n73424205223 (both
> > links
> > > seem to be good, I just am not sure which one might work this time,
> > > luckily,
> > > both)
> > >
> > > FYI, all materials that came out in this journal have been digitized and
> > > from
> > > January 2011 are accessible/downloadable.
> > >
> > > AY
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
> > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 6:18:56 AM
> > > Subject: RE: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > > Pedological Distortions
> > >
> > > Thanks for sharing this piece. I've read many summaries about why LSV
> > fell
> > > out
> > > of favor in Moscow, but this is the first truly contemporary (published
> > in
> > > 1937
> > > originally, and reproduced here) vituperative attack that lays out the
> > > complaint.
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > On
> > > Behalf
> > >
> > > Of mike cole
> > > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 12:06 AM
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > > Pedological Distortions
> > >
> > > Thanks Anton--
> > > Bad fellow that LSV. No end of mischief, to this day.
> > > Well, he got his just deserts. He died young of tuberculosis and totally
> > > avoided lead poisoning!
> > > mike
> > >
> > > On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Thanks, Anton
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > João Martins
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > On
> > > > Behalf Of Anton Yasnitsky
> > > > Sent: segunda-feira, 13 de junho de 2011 19:44
> > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > Subject: Re: [xmca] help-me -- Rudneva, E. I. (1937/2000). Vygotsky's
> > > > Pedological Distortions
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Joao <jbmartin@sercomtel.com.br>
> > > > To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> > > > Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 5:34:22 PM
> > > > Subject: [xmca] help-me
> > > >
> > > > People... i need of text
> > > > Rudneva, E. I. - Vygotsky's Pedological Distortions, published at
> > Journal
> > > > of
> > > > Russian and East European Psychology, V. 38, N. 6, P. 75-94 -
> > > > November-December 2000
> > > >
> > > > Can Someone help-me?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > João Martins
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________
> > > > _____
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________
> > > > _____
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
> End of xmca Digest, Vol 73, Issue 13
> ************************************
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca