[Xmca-l] Re: Play and symbolic thought --

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Beth-- I look forward to seeing a careful report of the practices that you
are describing. It remains difficult to
imagine a one year old whose language production skills we are used to
think of as limited engaging in the kinds of interactions you describe. Are
you planning to replicate this kind of pedagogical practice in Brooklyn?
mike


On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 2:36 PM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for this comment, Larry -- here is the Tarulli, and the one you
> mention with Robert Lecusay -- Beth
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am remembering the discussion of playworlds and the zo-ped as helping
> the
> > adults *grow up* within socratic dialogues with children.
> > An article was referenced which I am would like to read that was
> referenced
> > in the article:
> >
> > Cheyne, J. A and Tarulli, D (1999) Dialogue ,difference, and voice in the
> > zone of proximal development. Theory and Psychology, 9, 5-28.
> >
> > If it is possible to send a cop.y I would appreciate this..
> >
> > The exploration of desire and motivation and the adult being transformed
> > [and developing] within the intersubjective engagement [and enactment] in
> > the zo-ped is what I find fascinating. This depth of *care and concern*
> for
> > the child's *voice* moving from the magisterial TO the socratic voice
> seems
> > a radical [going to the root] of the zo-ped.
> > Thanks,
> > Larry
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > This is very very helpful, Artin.  Monica and I are both about to fly
> to
> > > the US, me to return her for a few month, so we will have to discuss
> and
> > > respond in a couple weeks.   Thank you! Beth
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Beth and Monica--
> > > >
> > > > Although I have quietly followed some of the posts on this issue, I
> > don't
> > > > remember exactly what was said before. So, if anything I say is
> > redundant
> > > > or not so relevant, just feel free to ignore it..
> > > >
> > > > In discussions of whether or how imaginative play leads to
> development
> > of
> > > > symbols, one important issue that is often not considered is the
> > > > motivation for play.  A shared conviction among theorists like Freud,
> > > > Piaget, and Vygotsky is that children play in order to make sense of
> an
> > > > affectively significant experience, e.g., to heal a wound (Freud), to
> > > > develop mastery over a personal past experience (Piaget), or to
> > > anticipate
> > > > future based on partial understandings of an experience (Vygotsky.)
>  I
> > > > believe all of these to be true based on my own work with young
> > children
> > > > as a former preschool teacher and some clinical experience with
> > children
> > > > who had learning disabilities.  Suzanne Gaskins and I wrote about
> these
> > > > issues together before too.  Cindy Dell Clark's book on the role of
> > play
> > > > in the treatment of children with asthma and diabetes supports this
> > idea
> > > > too.  So, it seems to me that if we can show/understand the
> connection
> > > > between children's play activities and their antecedents, it will be
> > > > easier to see that even by virtue of expressing something of personal
> > > > significance in play, children are making an effort to symbolize that
> > > > experience.
> > > >
> > > > A second issue relates to how the experience gets represented.  In
> the
> > > > 1970s and 80s, Greta Fein wrote a lot about this issue.  She argued
> and
> > > > showed that the road to symbolization begins with placing a familiar
> > > > personal event of significance in the context of play, e.g., an
> > infant's
> > > > pretending to drink from an empty bottle.  Greta called this
> > > > de-contextualization.  With age, a de-contextualized event gets
> > > > transformed through different means, i.e., objects and ideas, and
> > > > opportunities as afforded by their cultural/community contexts.  In
> > other
> > > > words, something can be represented either through a very structured
> > toy
> > > > or not using any object at all.  So, if we see symbolization taking
> > place
> > > > in many different ways, it may be easier to see how play leads to
> > > symbolic
> > > > development.  (One example I can think of from the arts is how
> > > > representation of a tree had changed in Modigliani's paintings from
> > tree
> > > > figures to geometric shapes...)
> > > >
> > > > Basically, I am suggesting that the connection between play and
> > symbolic
> > > > development will be easier to see if we understand the connection
> > between
> > > > play activities and their non-play antecedents, and also that there
> is
> > a
> > > > developmental/contextual order/preference to how experiences get
> > > > represented in play.
> > > >
> > > > All the best, ag
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, December 13, 2013 10:34 am, Beth Ferholt wrote:
> > > > > We apologize for the delay responding:
> > > > > We have been thinking about what you all wrote, reading the
> > suggestions
> > > > > and
> > > > > then going into the preschools to gather more data in response ...
> > > > > This is what we came up with, and we are working here as much from
> > > > > interviews with the many (35) teachers with whom we are working as
> > from
> > > > > observations of teaching and learning:
> > > > >
> > > > > We think that the way we asked the question enforced some
> dichotomies
> > > > that
> > > > > we want to challenge, particularly between form and content -- but
> > also
> > > > > between symbolic thought and play.  So, to the many of you who said
> > > this:
> > > > > what do we mean by symbolic thought? the simplest unit?: let us
> try a
> > > > > different approach to this dilemma.  Peg: Mash up -- yes!  But
> before
> > > > they
> > > > > mash maybe we are seeing some preparation for the mash?
> > > > >
> > > > > Gunilla Lindqvist (1995) was searching for a common denominator
> > between
> > > > > art
> > > > > and play when she developed playworlds.  Discussions with Kiyo
> > > (Mizasaki)
> > > > > during the recent playworld conference have brought us back to this
> > > > > question.  So has a paper Mike suggested by Dennis Newman: Learning
> > to
> > > > > Draw
> > > > > a Picture in Discourse Processes, 1980.
> > > > >
> > > > > It seems to us that the teachers here are creating a pivot in the
> way
> > > > they
> > > > > work with the children.  This is based in what they do in their art
> > > > > studios, guided by the artist who works with them (called an
> > > atelierista
> > > > > in
> > > > > the Reggio Emilia preschools).  They spend lots and lots of time
> with
> > > the
> > > > > children in very small groups or one-on-one, from the time the
> > children
> > > > > are
> > > > > one, doing what they call listening to the children and helping
> them
> > to
> > > > > look.
> > > > >
> > > > > But we think, following Newman, that what they are doing with the
> > > > children
> > > > > that is working like the pivot in play to divorce object from
> > meaning,
> > > is
> > > > > to be found in creation of an understanding of artistic
> > representation
> > > > > within the social context of the studio/building room, etc.  The
> > > teachers
> > > > > speak to the children endlessly -- and not a lecture, this is
> careful
> > > > > listening and dialogue with what the children do and say -- about
> how
> > > to
> > > > > represent what they see.  The bus is long -- this is why we have a
> > long
> > > > > paper (lots of touching the paper and the photo of the bus (that
> they
> > > > rode
> > > > > that AM!) here -- ).  The bus is what color?  What paint will you
> > use?
> > > > >  They also are careful to use materials that do not interfere with
> > this
> > > > > process.  If it is a long piece of paper, and the question is about
> > > color
> > > > > (not lines) then they have a thick brush.  Also, the emphasis is on
> > the
> > > > > children feeling proud at being able to draw what they want to
> draw.
> > >  In
> > > > > this the teacher is looking for that moment of understanding that
> the
> > > > > stick
> > > > > (picture) is a horse (bus).  (The children really do shine at this
> > > > moment,
> > > > > it is wild!)
> > > > >
> > > > > All this means that when the children are one and a half they can
> > make
> > > a
> > > > >  blade of grass into a key in a story because they are familiar
> with
> > > > > pivots.  The  lesson was not actually about painting.  Or, it was,
> > but
> > > > the
> > > > > social context -- the events above -- shaped what the lesson was,
> and
> > > it
> > > > > was a lesson about representation.
> > > > >
> > > > > A favorite example of the environment/materials supporting this
> > > > > pivot-creation is the toilet paper tubes with their photos
> laminated
> > on
> > > > > them.  In the block area they and their friends -- represented by
> > > toilet
> > > > > paper tubes -- play in the block buildings they make.  When the two
> > > year
> > > > > olds start to point out that this is them, it is as if we could SEE
> > > that
> > > > > the art activities and the play DO have a common denominator.
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, we are still exploring, and we are thinking about ALL the
> > responses
> > > > > you
> > > > > gave us although we do not yet have responses to all.
> > > > >
> > > > > To the suggestion of posting footage, we would like to but our IRB
> > does
> > > > > not
> > > > > allow it.
> > > > >
> > > > > TO Nacho -- Hi : ) !  Great tip that as you see we followed!!!!!
> > > > >
> > > > > Very happy to have more feedback, as this back and forth between
> you
> > > all
> > > > > and the teachers is a wonderful social context for our development
> in
> > > > > relation to this problem!
> > > > >
> > > > > Beth and Monica
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Oct 19, 2013 at 4:32 AM, larry smolucha
> > > > > <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Message from Francine:
> > > > >> Beth,
> > > > >> I this is what I think is going on at the preschool you describe.
> > Over
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> past 40 years, I have observed several changes in what was deemed
> > > > >> ideologically fashionable in education and psychology. There was a
> > > time
> > > > >> when Piaget was cutting edge (in the USA 1960's) - the devotees
> were
> > > > >> passionate - it was like Beatlemania. The Vygotsky era in the USA
> > had
> > > to
> > > > >> buck up against the Piagetians, but gradually, Vygotsky gained
> > > > >> credibility.
> > > > >> It is important to keep in mind the cold war politics stifling and
> > > then
> > > > >> shaping the discourse. Alongside this was the discovery of Derrida
> > as
> > > a
> > > > >> sort of cult figure. What would be more predictable than to have a
> > > > >> post-modern movement whose agenda is to render obsolete all of the
> > > > >> towering
> > > > >> intellects of the 20th century to replace them with some turn of
> the
> > > > >> century Millennium figures [Dahlberg, Moss, Deluze).
> > > > >> Like Andy Blunden, I do see anything in the use of object
> > > substitutions
> > > > >> at
> > > > >> age onethat undermines anything in Vygotskian theory (blade of
> grass
> > > as
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> key). Certainly, thebehavior is precocious. Also, the precocious
> > > > >> recognition of alphabet letters and numbers in the second year of
> > > life,
> > > > >> does not disprove Vygotsky or Piaget.
> > > > >> As a play researcher, I would have a few questions about the use
> of
> > > the
> > > > >> blade of grassas a key: (1) What served as the lock? A real lock,
> > on a
> > > > >> door
> > > > >> perhaps? So was the bladeof grass stuck in the lock? (2) Did the
> > > toddler
> > > > >> say anything indicating it was a key or the action was unlocking
> the
> > > > >> door?
> > > > >> Just sticking a blade of grass in a lock would be coded [in a
> > > > >> dissertation] as a proto-object substitution. Additional gestures
> > such
> > > > >> as
> > > > >> turning the blade of grass like a key, and/or turning the handle
> of
> > > the
> > > > >> door and opening it, would support a 'symbolic'
> function.Certainly,
> > > > >> naming
> > > > >> and especially renaming the blade of grass would be evidence.From
> > your
> > > > >> description of one year olds (plural) 'opening a locked door' and
> > > > >> describing what is inside, I suspect that the teachers were
> leading
> > > the
> > > > >> children in this play activity and that is was actually guided
> > pretend
> > > > >> play
> > > > >> that was scaffolded by the adults.
> > > > >> In my dissertation, I observed the development of object
> > substitutions
> > > > >> (and play gesturesthat suggest invisible objects) in six children
> > from
> > > > >> 14
> > > > >> months of age until 28 months of age.In a half hour observation at
> > 14
> > > > >> months, one child picked up a stacking cup and put it to her lips
> as
> > > if
> > > > >> to
> > > > >> drink  (coded as proto-object substitution with 'invisible
> > > substance').
> > > > >> The
> > > > >> gesture could have just been Functionlust (Karl Groos' definition
> of
> > > > >> pretend play)and that is how the stacking gesture (you describe)
> > with
> > > an
> > > > >> imaginary 'ring' would be coded.
> > > > >> In 2002, I did a presentation at the ISCRAT Congress in Amsterdam,
> > at
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> invitation of Bert van Oers. I attended a symposium on play and
> soon
> > > > >> discovered that Activity Theoryproponents were totally unaware of
> > the
> > > > >> substantial research done on Vygotsky's theory of play (not
> > associated
> > > > >> with
> > > > >> Activity Theory.) As early as 1982, Inge Bretherton edited a book
> > > > >> titled
> > > > >> Symbolic Play that included some examples of pretend play at age
> one
> > > > >> (particularlyPeggy Miller's chapter on Mother-Baby Role Play).
> > > > >> Beth, can you find a citation for the 2013 review of research that
> > > Bert
> > > > >> van Oers referredto when saying the research on the relationship
> > > between
> > > > >> play and symbolic developmentwas inconclusive. I bet it was a very
> > > > >> narrow
> > > > >> review of just Activity Theory based studies.
> > > > >> Sorry, I do not have an extra copy of my dissertation. Can you get
> > it
> > > > >> on-line or on loan?It was completed in 1991 at the University of
> > > > >> Chicago. I
> > > > >> will see what I can do to makeit more readily available.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2013 13:47:04 +0200
> > > > >> > From: bferholt@gmail.com
> > > > >> > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > >> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Play and symbolic thought --
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thank you for all the interesting responses, both the ones in
> this
> > > > >> chain
> > > > >> > and the many private responses we received -- we have been hard
> at
> > > > >> work
> > > > >> > thinking and reading in response!
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > We had not read all of the things that people sent, before --
> > > > >> Francine,
> > > > >> can
> > > > >> > you send your dissertation? -- but we were familiar with much of
> > it
> > > of
> > > > >> it,
> > > > >> > also the work on play and narrative development, language
> > > development,
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > metaphor. BTW, we just heard Bert van Oers talk, a very
> > interesting
> > > > >> talk,
> > > > >> > and he mentioned near the start that the connection was
> > inconclusive
> > > > >> (a
> > > > >> > 2013 literature review – ).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > However, what made us reach out to XMCA was the following
> dilemma:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > The teachers at the preschool where we are working are generally
> > > > >> suspicious
> > > > >> > of developmental theory. Gunilla Dahlberg and Peter Moss write
> > some
> > > of
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > books they read in their training, and argue convincingly that
> > > > >> > developmental theory is very important to the discourse that
> > > supports
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> > deficit model of the child. These teachers turn to Deluze before
> > > > >> Piaget
> > > > >> and
> > > > >> > they are also wary of Vygotsky -- through the looking glass
> > compared
> > > > >> to
> > > > >> > preschools in the US -- *and* these are the preschools that
> > (because
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> > their practice) we would most want to be in if we were young
> > > children,
> > > > >> or
> > > > >> > would most want our kids and grandkids to be in, hand-down.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > In any case, many of these teachers have taken on the task of
> > > showing
> > > > >> us
> > > > >> > that our idea that play leads to symbolic thought is not right.
> > They
> > > > >> show
> > > > >> > us all this amazing play -- and symbolic thought -- that one
> year
> > > olds
> > > > >> are
> > > > >> > doing. They make films and take photographs and the give
> hour-long
> > > > >> > presentations to us : ).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > For instance, they showed us one year olds pretending a blade of
> > > grass
> > > > >> was
> > > > >> > a key and "opening" a locked door and describing what they saw
> > > inside.
> > > > >> They
> > > > >> > showed us one year olds using letters and numbers. In fact, my
> own
> > > > >> just-two
> > > > >> > year old, who has been attending their preschool for almost a
> > year,
> > > > >> could
> > > > >> > identify letters and numbers months ago, and also seems to have
> an
> > > > >> idea
> > > > >> of
> > > > >> > what these symbols mean/ are for (although I have to think more
> > > about
> > > > >> why I
> > > > >> > think this -- I DO think it is right, but why -- ). Many
> children
> > in
> > > > >> my
> > > > >> > child's class do this, he is certainly not "gifted" when it come
> > to
> > > > >> > reading, so the point is that I had to see it in a child I knew
> > > really
> > > > >> well
> > > > >> > to believe it ... and I did, and I do.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > So, we are stuck. We really are not ready to give up the
> > > relationship
> > > > >> > between play and symbolic thought. But we are confused by what
> we
> > > are
> > > > >> > seeing these very young children doing, and I suppose that when
> we
> > > > >> wrote
> > > > >> > XMCA we were sort of hoping for some impossible and longitudinal
> > > > >> experiment
> > > > >> > that showed that without play symbolic thought does not develop
> :
> > )
> > > .
> > > > >> Of
> > > > >> > course we know from Gaskins and Goncu that this is probably not
> > > right?
> > > > >> So
> > > > >> > perhaps an experiment that showed children incapable of symbolic
> > > > >> thought,
> > > > >> > playing, and then all of a sudden -- presto – hmmm.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Do people have further thoughts or questions for us? THey would
> be
> > > > >> much
> > > > >> > appreciated. We don't want to leave the teachers without
> defending
> > > > >> what
> > > > >> we
> > > > >> > still think is so important about play, but maybe children are
> > more
> > > > >> capable
> > > > >> > of both pretend play and symbolic thought, when they are very,
> > very
> > > > >> young,
> > > > >> > than we thought after our years of teaching in other contexts
> (in
> > > > >> which
> > > > >> we
> > > > >> > were less supported in seeing the competent child -- really the
> > > > >> competent
> > > > >> > toddler or even baby in this case) and than we though about
> after
> > > our
> > > > >> > reading of VYgotsky on play.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks to a few comments we ARE back to Wartovsky – It may be
> less
> > > > >> about
> > > > >> > seeing a competent child in these schools, than about their
> > emphasis
> > > > >> on
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > arts?  Or maybe it’s both?
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > THank you all again for the help with this, Beth and Monica
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 3:18 AM, larry smolucha <
> > > > lsmolucha@hotmail.com
> > > > >> >wrote:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > > Message from Francine Smolucha:
> > > > >> > > Beth,
> > > > >> > > I would not hesitate to say that play is essential for
> > > > >> > > development(cognitive, social, emotional,and neurological).
> > > > >> > > Elena Bodrova and Deborah Leong's Tools of the Mind Preschool
> > > > >> > > Curriculumhas also provided supporting evidence that spans
> these
> > > > >> four
> > > > >> > > domains.They have an ongoing study with the University of
> > > > >> Chicago.While
> > > > >> > > their focus is on self-regulation which itself courses all
> four
> > > > >> > > domains,they also teach the preschool teachers how to teach
> the
> > > > >> children to
> > > > >> > > use object substitutions in pretend play. There is much
> > potential
> > > > >> here
> > > > >> for
> > > > >> > > a systematic study of the role of object substitutions in
> > learning
> > > > >> to
> > > > >> use
> > > > >> > > symbol systems.
> > > > >> > > > Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 10:34:28 +0200
> > > > >> > > > From: bferholt@gmail.com
> > > > >> > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > >> > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Play and symbolic thought --
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > We will look at your dissertation, from 1991, this is
> helpful.
> > > > >> And
> > > > >> yes,
> > > > >> > > > this is what we are thinking about.  Your response makes me
> > > think
> > > > >> more
> > > > >> > > > broadly about the challenge the teachers we are working with
> > are
> > > > >> posing
> > > > >> > > to
> > > > >> > > > our conception of the importance of play in child
> development
> > > ...
> > > > >> I
> > > > >> think
> > > > >> > > > we must be more clear about this before we can answer my
> > > question,
> > > > >> above.
> > > > >> > > >  I don't think we want to say play is essential, so then we
> > need
> > > > >> to
> > > > >> ask
> > > > >> > > why
> > > > >> > > > we want to say it is hard to replace, or particularly
> > efficient
> > > at
> > > > >> what
> > > > >> > > it
> > > > >> > > > does -- The response will not be found in one experiment.
> > Thank
> > > > >> you!
> > > > >> > >  Beth
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 3:01 AM, larry smolucha <
> > > > >> lsmolucha@hotmail.com
> > > > >> > > >wrote:
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > > Message from Francine Smolucha:
> > > > >> > > > > Beth,
> > > > >> > > > > According to Vygotsky, object substitutions in pretend
> play
> > > > >> (such
> > > > >> as
> > > > >> > > > > riding on a stick as if it were a  horse) are the pivot
> for
> > > > >> separating
> > > > >> > > > > meaning from object. The ability to make the gesture with
> a
> > > > >> non-replica
> > > > >> > > > > object leads to more abstract symbols such as using
> > pictorial
> > > > >> > > > > representation (such as stick people and stick animals in
> > > > >> drawings, i.
> > > > >> > > e.,
> > > > >> > > > > line drawings) to words made out of alphabet letters and
> > > > >> numerical
> > > > >> > > > > notations. I do not know of any one longitudinal study
> that
> > > > >> documented
> > > > >> > > this
> > > > >> > > > > progression, but there are certainly studies thatfocused
> on
> > > > >> specific
> > > > >> > > > > components. My doctoral dissertation University of Chicago
> > > > >> > > 1991documented
> > > > >> > > > > how objects changed their names and functions in pretend
> > play
> > > (a
> > > > >> > > > > longitudinal study of toddlers aged 14- to 28- months.)
> > Isn't
> > > > >> that
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > > > > basic definition of a symbol - that one object can stand
> for
> > > > >> another
> > > > >> > > > > (re-present another)???
> > > > >> > > > > Are you thinking of something along these lines?
> > > > >> > > > > > Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2013 12:31:41 +0200
> > > > >> > > > > > From: bferholt@gmail.com
> > > > >> > > > > > To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > >> > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Play and symbolic thought --
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > We are wondering if there is anything actually showing
> > that
> > > > >> play
> > > > >> > > allows
> > > > >> > > > > for
> > > > >> > > > > > the development of symbolic thought ... we do not have
> an
> > > idea
> > > > >> what
> > > > >> > > this
> > > > >> > > > > > experiment could look like : ) ... anytime it was done
> is
> > > > >> fine!
> > > > >> Beth
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > On Tue, Sep 17, 2013 at 7:18 PM, Hansen, Monica <
> > > > >> > > > > > monica.hansen@vandals.uidaho.edu> wrote:
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > Beth,
> > > > >> > > > > > > What specifically about Vygotsky's claims and the
> > > > >> relationship
> > > > >> > > between
> > > > >> > > > > > > play and symbolic thought are you looking for research
> > to
> > > > >> > > > > substantiate? Are
> > > > >> > > > > > > you looking for contemporary research? What kind of
> > > > >> research?
> > > > >> The
> > > > >> > > path
> > > > >> > > > > is
> > > > >> > > > > > > not always easy or direct because Vygotsky's thoughts
> > > > >> encompassed
> > > > >> > > > > larger
> > > > >> > > > > > > ideas within which a myriad of approaches to research
> on
> > > > >> this
> > > > >> topic
> > > > >> > > > > can be
> > > > >> > > > > > > framed and approached. At least this has been my
> > > experience
> > > > >> in
> > > > >> > > hunting
> > > > >> > > > > it
> > > > >> > > > > > > down :)
> > > > >> > > > > > > --The other Monica
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > >> > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > > > >> > > > > > > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Beth
> > > Ferholt
> > > > >> > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 10:06 AM
> > > > >> > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > >> > > > > > > Cc: xmca-l@ucsd.edu
> > > > >> > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Play and symbolic thought --
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > Monica and I have been talking about Vygotsky's work
> on
> > > the
> > > > >> > > > > relationship
> > > > >> > > > > > > between play and symbolic thought and been being
> > > challenged
> > > > >> by
> > > > >> > > Swedish
> > > > >> > > > > > > preschool teachers.  Is there an experiment that shows
> > > > >> Vygotsky was
> > > > >> > > > > correct
> > > > >> > > > > > > in his claims about this relationship?  We can't find
> > any!
> > > > >> > > > > > > Tanks,
> > > > >> > > > > > > Beth
> > > > >> > > > > > > --
> > > > >> > > > > > > Beth Ferholt
> > > > >> > > > > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > >> > > > > > > School of Education
> > > > >> > > > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > > >> > > > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > >> > > > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > >> > > > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > >> > > > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > --
> > > > >> > > > > > Beth Ferholt
> > > > >> > > > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > >> > > > > > School of Education
> > > > >> > > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > > >> > > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > >> > > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > > >> > > > > >
> > > > >> > > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > >> > > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > >> > > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > --
> > > > >> > > > Beth Ferholt
> > > > >> > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > >> > > > School of Education
> > > > >> > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > > >> > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > >> > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > > >> > > >
> > > > >> > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > >> > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > >> > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > --
> > > > >> > Beth Ferholt
> > > > >> > Assistant Professor
> > > > >> > School of Education
> > > > >> > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > > >> > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > >> > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > >> > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > >> > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Beth Ferholt
> > > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > > School of Education
> > > > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > > >
> > > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Artin Goncu, Ph.D
> > > > Professor Emeritus,
> > > > University of Illinois at Chicago
> > > > College of Education M/C 147
> > > > 1040 W. Harrison St.
> > > > Chicago, IL 60607
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Beth Ferholt
> > > Assistant Professor
> > > School of Education
> > > Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > >
> > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor
> School of Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>
Status: O