I believe that this discussion needs to involve "unit of analysis" for
what it is that provides the mediational method.
What unit of study can properly encapsulate that which is being observed?
Activity? Concept? Word? Mirror Neuron?
Oh my what a great temptest LSV did let out of the teapot
eric
-----xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu wrote: -----
To: "xmca@weber.ucsd.edu" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
From: Achilles Delari Junior
Sent by: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
Date: 06/05/2013 07:04AM
Subject: RE: [xmca] Double Stimulation?
Sure, Greg,
Well, seems to me that "draw analogies between different domains of
their worlds" is closer to "meaning construction" than to choice a
"stimulus medium" to help memory tasks, for instance. The "double
stimulation" is fine because introduces a kind of mediation between a
stimulus and our response to the stimulus. But, following Vygotsky's
formulations at that time this new series of "stimulus" (a nude, a
word, etc) act also as a stimulus, a conditioned one. If you change
you paradigm to the proposition that all sign implies any kind of
"generalization process" (meaning) that differs in their structure and
has a genetic construction (see the studies about concepts, for
instance), a sign could not be only a second series of stimuli ruled
by the same laws that a conditional reflex... As in "Instrumental
method": S-------X-------R. Where the relation S---------R is a direct
stimulus response relationship, but when you introduce a second series
of stimulus "X" (double stimulation) you have an indirect stimulus
response relationship, but the relation between S and X, and X and R
remain a conditioned reflex relationship... "Draw analogies between
different domains of our worlds" seem to mean that we are in transit
between different words of signification, and culture is a human
production that involves the "generalization" from a world to another,
broader, maybe not exactly more precise, but "broader", in my opinion.
I don't know...
"In natural memory a direct associative (conditional reflex)
connection A?B is established between two stimuli A and B. In
artificial, mnemotechnic memory of the same impression, by means of a
psychological tool X (a knot in a handkerchief, a mnemonic scheme)
instead of the direct connection A?B two new ones are established: A?X
and X?B Just like the connection A?B each of them is a natural
conditional reflex process, determined, by the properties of the brain
tissue. What is new, artificial, and instrumental is the fact of the
replacement of one connection A?B by two connections: A?X and X?B They
lead to the same result, but by a different path. What is new is the
artificial direction which the instrument gives to the natural process
of establishing a conditional connection, i.e., the active utilization
of the natural properties of brain tissue." Vygotsky "The Instumental
Method" (this is 1930)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/1930/instrumental.htm
But already in 1928:
"Let us now compare the natural and cultural mnemonics of a child. The
relation between the two forms can be graphically expressed by means
of a triangle: in case of natural memorization a direct associative or
conditional reflexive connection is set up between two points, A and
B. In case of mnemotechnical memorization, utilizing some sign,
instead of one associative connection AB, the others are set up AX and
BX, which bring us to the same result, but in a roundabout way. Each
of these connections AX and BX is the same kind of
conditional-reflexive process of connection as AB." Vygotsky (1928)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/1929/cultural_development.htm
See: "AX and BX is the same kind of conditional-reflexive process of
connection as AB." --> The same kind... This paradigm will not be the
same in 1933-34...
"(Introduction: the importance of the sign; its social meaning). In
older works we ignored that the sign has meaning. < But there is ?a
time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together?
(Ecclesiastes). > We proceeded from the principle of the constancy of
meaning, we discounted meaning. But the problem of meaning was already
present in the older investigations. Whereas before our task was to
demonstrate what ?the knot? and logical memory have in common, now our
task is to demonstrate the difference that exists between them.From
our works it follows that the sign changes the interfunctional
relationships." (Vygotsky, 1933-34)
http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/1934/problem-consciousness.htm
And now?
Thank you.
Achilles.
> Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 18:31:23 -0600
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Double Stimulation?
> From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> Achilles,
>
> Sounded interesting, but I'm not sure I followed you completely. You say
> that Strathern's quote seems like it has a broader application that
"double
> stimulation", but I could use some help with the rest of your message.
>
> If you have a few minutes, maybe you could try rephrasing?
>
> -greg
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 4:11 PM, Achilles Delari Junior <
> achilles_delari@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In my undertanding, this is very broader and more powerful than double
> > stimulation... Double stimulation could be overcoming with another
way for
> > think signs than "medium stimulus" - See "The problem of
consciousness"
> > (1933-34), for instance. The more important will be not the similarity
> > between a nude and a word, but their difference, "before was
forgotten that
> > sign had a meaning" and "now" the meaning must be take in account.
Double
> > stimulation, in my understanding, do not resists to this new point
of view.
> >
> > Achilles.
> >
> > > Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 06:19:04 -0600
> > > From: greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> > > To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu; lchcmike@gmail.com;
antti.rajala@helsinki.fi
> > > CC:
> > > Subject: [xmca] Double Stimulation?
> > >
> > > I wonder if this quote by Marilyn Strathern can be productively
connected
> > > (not necessarily geneaologically, but ideologically) to the
notion of
> > > "double stimulation" (which I am just now trying to figure out):
> > > "Culture consists in the way people draw analogies between different
> > > domains of their worlds" (1992: 47).
> > >
> > > -greg
> > >
> > > --
> > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > Visiting Assistant Professor
> > > Department of Anthropology
> > > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > Brigham Young University
> > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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