Re: [xmca] Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is choice

[Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>]

Dear Haydi,
I am so glad that you "continued".
Sincerely,
Robert


On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 5:15 AM, Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>wrote:

> Dear Helena
> I was excused to continue but ...
> When Iraq was invaded by the victorious , etiquette-ering , sophisticated
> , civilized , cultured , humanitarian-held army of the GLOBALIZED ,
> CIVILIZED AMERICA , first of all , the many invaluable monumentals
> belonging to the opressed people of Iraq were plundered , sent to the
> Metropolis ; the etiquette-ering woman soldier of the civilized army had
> the Iraqi poor oppressed cruelized naked captives act according to the
> disciplines learnt at the American Headquarters ; at a red bloody dawn of
> the Afghan Horizon , one beraged etiquette-trained soldier used his
> civilized right of erecting to his firm legs raising his rifle very
> honourably up , slaughtered many many innocent asleep sweet or bitter
> dreaming afghan people from different ages with the politest manner of
> citizenship ; the badly mutilated parts of the body of small children
> floating in the Gulf waters , their dolls away from their warm bosoms ,
> were taken from the blood-smeared waters ; thousands
>  and thousands of workers clung to the lower rung of the ladder have been
> expelled and are being expelled from their workplaces ; some of the best
> scholars in the rank of the learned and the educated in the most
> progressive civilized countries were thrown out of their holy fertile soil
> of knowledge and wisdom , etc.etc. . You and Manfred beholding these
> unprecedented scenes of etiquette , decency , and sophistication
> personality-promoting self-ascending acts , with the achieved level of
> attained PERSONAL SENSE grown out of your own activities and interactions
> with the other I,s , knowing the fact that the many billions of the
> victimized American soldiers' money went repeatedly to the bail-outs for
> the Messiahs of Capitalism , had any bit of fun of a scanty comparison
> between ... ??
> I do know you are a very industrious workplace consultant acting not just
> learning about ...
> Best
> Haydi
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
> To: "ablunden@mira.net" <ablunden@mira.net>; "eXtended Mind,
> Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Sent: Sunday, 31 March 2013, 1:16:42
> Subject: Re: [xmca] Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is choice
>
>
> Andy --
>
>
> Very complicated, but illustrative because of that.
>
>
> To start with, in the US, bank employees are almost never represented by
>
> unions (I do not know of any at all, in fact, except at the Amalgamated
>
> Bank in Chicago where they are represented by UNITE, for historical
>
> reasons that I won't go into here). Most bank employees are part of the
>
> swelling low-wage workforce that clings to the bottom rung of a ladder
>
> into white-collar, "professional" jobs, often offering no job
>
> security,access to healthcare, benefits, etc.
>
>
> However, if one of these workers showed up in one of our training courses
>
> (and unrepresented workers sometimes do) they would probably discuss their
>
> working conditions with us and the rest of the class, but be advised
>
> never, never to get into a fit of rage at work. They would be advised
>
> instead to talk privately with other workers about any bullying that was
>
> going on, see if their interpretation of the supervisor's behavior was
>
> confirmed by others, and take good notes in the likelihood that some of
>
> the supervisor's behavior violated company policy or one of the state or
>
> federal laws governing discrimination or safety (which includes harassment
>
> and stress) at work. After a period of collective planning with other
>
> workers and some comprehensive note-taking, there might be something that
>
> can be done. It might be possible to get the supervisor disciplined, for
>
> example, or even removed.
>
>
> You may note that I'm not using the terms "superior" or "menial." Do you
>
> supposed there's a translation factor here? I also wonder at the use of
>
> the phrase "social etiquette."  I think I will substitute the phrase
>
> "professional behavior."
>
>
> So we are imagining a bank customer who is taken aback by the sight and
>
> sound of a bank employee who gets very angry, and who expresses that
>
> anger, at a person who appears to be his boss. Well, if I were that
>
> customer, I would think first about what this tells me about the social
>
> context of that particular workplace. I am very aware of the levels of
>
> stress experienced by workers who have to behave in a certain
>
> "professional" manner while at the same time doing complex tasks involving
>
> record-keeping and counting, and who are held to all-or-nothing standards
>
> regarding the property that they handle. This is true of clerks in the
>
> Post Office, too, who handle money and stamps.
>
>
> Before this gets too long, I'll just say that I agree, there is no
>
> omniscient observer to tell us what the "societal meaning" of something
>
> is. In fact, if Manfred and I were standing in line at that bank where
>
> this happened, it might be fun for us to compare our "personal sense" of
>
> what we saw.
>
>
> Helena
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3/30/13 6:34 AM, "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
>
> >Helena, consider the following scenario which Manfred uses to illustrate
>
> >what he calls "personal sense" and "societal meanings":
>
> >
>
> >        "People do not appropriate the use of signs and their meanings
>
> >        during social interactions in an impartial way.  They interpret
>
> >        and use them in the light of their actually elicited motives
>
> >        along with the motives they assign to the interaction partner.
>
> >        The societal meaning of the used signs does not have to match
>
> >        the individually assigned personal sense.  For example, an
>
> >        outsider may well interpret a public fit of rage by a
>
> >        low-ranking bank employee towards his superior as an inexcusable
>
> >        violation of social etiquette. However, for the menial employee,
>
> >        it may well be a reassertion of self-esteem in response to a
>
> >        humiliating directive" (p. 22).
>
> >
>
> >What I see is that the "low-ranking bank employee" might, for example,
>
> >have been a union member, maybe even attended one of your training
>
> >course the previous week. Whatever the reason, the response is not
>
> >immediately "personal", but arises from the employee's commitments to
>
> >projects including projects other than that embodied in the practical
>
> >norms of the bank as a profit-making enterprise (aka "social
>
> >etiquette"). What is personal is "the motivating sphere of
>
> >consciousness,  a sphere that includes our inclinations and needs, our
>
> >interests and impulses, and our affect and emotion." (Vygotsky, Thinking
>
> >and Speech, chapter 7, quoted on the same page by Holodynski). As
>
> >Manfred points out, these motivations, etc., are not just a subset of
>
> >"societal meanings". Personal sense is something qualitatively
>
> >different, which is acquired in the course of participation in a variety
>
> >of (societal) activities (or projects).
>
> >
>
> >The kind of conflict which could arise in this scenario is what Vasilyuk
>
> >had in mind when he considered what he called "life relations" which may
>
> >conflict with each other and generate personal crises. In fact, all of
>
> >Vasilyuk's work depends on the fact that a person has commitments to
>
> >multiple projects, which are both societal and personal in their
>
> >ontological status. "Activities" (or projects) exist, and it is thanks
>
> >to such activities that we have concepts, and only thus it is possible
>
> >for us to understand human action, because human actions are not
>
> >generally to be explained by their immediate goals, but rather make
>
> >sense only when seen as part of larger ("molar") projects. Without being
>
> >able to grasp, using concepts, the various of projects motivating a
>
> >person's actions and underlying their emotional expression displayed as
>
> >they do so, it would be impossible to understand human action. But I do
>
> >agree with Martin in one respect (23/03/2013) - there is no omniscient
>
> >observer to tell us what is the "societal meaning." In ANL's time, the
>
> >Politburo was supposed to play that role, but that was an illusion
>
> >anyway. Now we see life more as a fabric woven of divers threads. But I
>
> >am not concerned about being provided with "a criterion for choosing
>
> >between projects" - the individual's actions and their emotional
>
> >responses signal to us their practical relation to the various projects
>
> >underway in their life, and make them comprehensible to themselves and
>
> >others.
>
> >
>
> >My point is just that the binary contast between personal sense and
>
> >societal meaning is untenable.
>
> >
>
> >Rather, activities, as particular instances (or realisations) of a
>
> >concept mediate between the universal concepts provided in our material
>
> >culture, and individual actions. All these "can be verified in a purely
>
> >empirical way."
>
> >
>
> >Andy
>
> >
>
> >Helena Worthen wrote:
>
> >> Carol --
>
> >>
>
> >> Certainly. And this difference has implications. For example: Learning.
>
> >> When one learns a job that one does for art's sake, one learns it
>
> >> differently (or is taught it differently) than when one learns a job for
>
> >> the utilitarian motive of receiving money. Or, another example: social
>
> >> context.  The place where one practices a job that one does for art's
>
> >>sake
>
> >> is likely to be unregulated, whereas the place where one practices a job
>
> >> that one does to earn money is going to be -- or is supposed to be
>
> >> regulated. These regulations govern the relationship between the worker
>
> >> and the person/s who employ him/her/. Etc.
>
> >>
>
> >> Helena
>
> >>
>
> >> On 3/27/13 9:40 PM, "Carol Macdonald" <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>> Helena
>
> >>>
>
> >>> Andy points out in his book (An interdisciplinary theory of activity)
>
> >>>that
>
> >>> people may work for arts sake, but they may have a utilitarian motive
>
> >>>for
>
> >>> their work, for example working for the money. I think you may be in
>
> >>> agreement with this.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> Carol
>
> >>>
>
> >>> On 28 March 2013 00:20, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> Martin --
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Apologies for lurking, following by cryptic/petulant message.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> The point being that the same action can, depending on what activity
>
> >>>> system you're looking at it from, mean two very different things. And
>
> >>>> they
>
> >>>> can be in conflict, ranging from a cool, subdued conflict, to a very
>
> >>>>hot
>
> >>>> one. Specifically (since my interest lies in how people negotiated
>
> >>>> decent
>
> >>>> conditions of work), someone can be doing a job for the purpose of
>
> >>>> earning
>
> >>>> a living, and care not one whit about what the industry is (could be
>
> >>>> weaving cloth, making bombs, dumping garbage pails in a restaurant,
>
> >>>> grading papers). Or the person can be doing a job for the purpose of
>
> >>>> doing
>
> >>>> the job. Most studies of the workplace assume that people at work are
>
> >>>> working for the purpose that the firm/company/enterprise/industry is
>
> >>>>set
>
> >>>> up for. When they overlook the possibility that two very different,
>
> >>>> sometimes conflicting activities are taking place (an activity system
>
> >>>> defined by motive/purpose), then they can't discern how people are
>
> >>>> feeling, how they're learning to do the job, how they're managing
>
> >>>>their
>
> >>>> effort, etc etc.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Thanks for asking.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Helena
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> On 3/27/13 1:42 PM, "Martin Packer" <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>> Hi Helena,
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Which point are you referring to? There have been so many!
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Martin
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> On Mar 27, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com
> >
>
> >>>>> wrote:
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>> Hello -- Exactly my point in my MCA article on using AT to study
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>> work.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>> Helena Worthen
>
> >>>>>> Hworthen@illinois.edu
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> On 3/22/13 8:40 AM, "Holodynski, Manfred"
>
> >>>>>> <manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> thank you very much for all your valued comments on my article.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> There
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> are
>
> >>>>>>> a lot of aspects already discussed and I have some difficulties to
>
> >>>>>>> follow
>
> >>>>>>> all lines of argumentation. Therefore, I would like to answer to
>
> >>>>>>>the
>
> >>>>>>> following:
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> 1. Emotions as psychological function within the macrostructure of
>
> >>>>>>> activity.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> As Andy claims it I get my Activity Theory from AN Leont'ev and I
>
> >>>>>>> focused
>
> >>>>>>> especially on his concept of macrostructure of activity and its
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> levels
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> of
>
> >>>>>>> activity that is related to motives, actions that are related to
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> goals
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> and operations that are related to the conditions under which an
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> action
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> is given. And Andy gets precisely to the heart of it when he stated
>
> >>>>>>> that
>
> >>>>>>> my article needs to be read with attention to motivation and how
>
> >>>>>>>the
>
> >>>>>>> macrostructure of an activity is related to the motives and goals
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> of an
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> individual. One activity can be realized by different actions, and
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> one
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> action can realize different activities.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> May I quote Andy's words:
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> " Because motives are not given to immediate perception; they have
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> to
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> be
>
> >>>>>>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the
>
> >>>>>>> success,
>
> >>>>>>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> both
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> is
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> an
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> ""actions
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> activities (!) (MH)"". It is the emotions which signal (internally
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> and
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> externally) the success, etc., etc., that is, in an action's
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> furthering
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> an activity, and it is this which makes manifest and actual that
>
> >>>>>>> connection between action and activity, for both the
>
> >>>>>>> observer/participant
>
> >>>>>>> and the individual subject.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind",
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> or
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> intelligent infants, etc."
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> a) Take the example of the opening of the window. That's the
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> behavior.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> What's the goal?
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> b) Imagine the person is a leader and opens the window in order to
>
> >>>>>>> greet
>
> >>>>>>> his followers and to hold a speech. That's the goal. What is the
>
> >>>>>>> activity?
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> c) If one look at the circumstances one can derive that the speech
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> is a
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> part of a political activity in order to celebrate the election
>
> >>>>>>> victory.
>
> >>>>>>> So, if the leader also feels pride and enthusiasm about the victory
>
> >>>>>>> there
>
> >>>>>>> is coincidence between the publically assigned meaning and the
>
> >>>>>>> personally
>
> >>>>>>> felt sense of the situation. However, it may also be possible that
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> he
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> doesn't feel pride but a great burden and he personally feels to be
>
> >>>>>>> overloaded with the duties and future expectations. Then the
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> societal
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> meaning assigned by the followers to this situation and the
>
> >>>>>>>personal
>
> >>>>>>> sense assigned by the leader himself are not congruent. The leader
>
> >>>>>>> framed
>
> >>>>>>> this situation under an achievement perspective whether he is able
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> to
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> fulfill the leadership.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> But, note when we talk about actions and activity, then we speak
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> about
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> an
>
> >>>>>>> advanced level of activity e.g. in children or adults, but not in
>
> >>>>>>> infants
>
> >>>>>>> who start to have intentions but still not a mental image of a
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> future
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> state of affairs.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> 2. Differentiation between the basic level in infants and advanced
>
> >>>>>>> level
>
> >>>>>>> in older children:
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> - A young infant has not already established a goal-driven level of
>
> >>>>>>> actions. In the first weeks one can observe the acquisition of
>
> >>>>>>>first
>
> >>>>>>> operations and of first expectations what should happen. But these
>
> >>>>>>> expectations are not yet represented as a mental image about the
>
> >>>>>>> desired
>
> >>>>>>> future states. This is the product of the acquisition of a sign
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> system
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> which enables the person to evoke and  imagine a future state in
>
> >>>>>>>the
>
> >>>>>>> here
>
> >>>>>>> and now and to start to strive for it. And for this starting point,
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> not
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> only to imagine different future states, but also to select one of
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> them
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> and to start to strive for it, emotional processes come into play
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> that
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> color one of the imagined future state e.g. in a state worth
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> striving
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> for
>
> >>>>>>> and that mobilize the executive power to start striving for it.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> However, the ability to form such notions of goals and to transform
>
> >>>>>>> them
>
> >>>>>>> into actions is not something that occurs automatically. It emerges
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> in
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> a
>
> >>>>>>> long-drawn ontogenetic learning process in which the attainment of
>
> >>>>>>> goals
>
> >>>>>>> through actions is tried, tested, and increasingly optimized. Older
>
> >>>>>>> children are
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> So, for an understanding of my emotion concept the macrostructure
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> of an
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> activity is very decisive because I embedded emotions as a specific
>
> >>>>>>> psychological function within the macrostructure of an activity.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Best
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Manfred
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Manfred Holodynski
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Institut für Psychologie in Bildung und Erziehung
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Fliednerstr. 21
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> D-48149 Münster
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34311
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34310 (Sekretariat)
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34314 (Fax)
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
> http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/Psychologie.inst5/AEHolodynski/index.html
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>
> >>>>>>> Von: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
>
> >>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. März 2013 04:13
>
> >>>>>>> An: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> >>>>>>> Cc: Holodynski, Manfred
>
> >>>>>>> Betreff: Re: Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is
>
> >>>>>>>choice
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Mike, Manfred gets his Activity Theory from AN Leontyev, rather
>
> >>>>>>>than
>
> >>>>>>> Engestrom's "systems of activity."
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> So actions and activities are defined by their goals and motives.
>
> >>>>>>>So
>
> >>>>>>> Manfred's article needs to be read with attention to motivation and
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> how
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> the structure of an activity is related to motives and goals.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> Because
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> motives are not given to immediate perception; they have to be
>
> >>>>>>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the
>
> >>>>>>> success,
>
> >>>>>>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> both
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> is
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> an
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> actions.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> It
>
> >>>>>>> is the emotions which signal (internally and externally) the
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> success,
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> etc., etc., that is, in an action's furthering an activity, and it
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> is
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> this which makes manifest and actual that connection between action
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> and
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> activity, for both the observer/participant and the individual
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> subject.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind",
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>> or
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>> intelligent infants, etc.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> It's all in there.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> Andy
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> mike cole wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> Hi Andy - and here I was wondering why operation/action/activity
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>> were
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> not prominent in Manfred's article. Where does he lay out the
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>> views in
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> this note? Am I reading too superficially as usual? Seems
>
> >>>>>>>>important
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> for me to get clear about!
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> Mike
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 21, 2013, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    Think of your illustration,Martin, about whether, in opening
>
> >>>>>>>>the
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    window, you were acting as a technician or moral leader. I.e.,
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>> the
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    meaning of the action lies in the activity of which it is a
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>> part,
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    which is not immediately given. Manfred does not refer this to
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    "intention" or "belief". Manfred is quite specific that the
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    signalising and self-perception of an action in relation to an
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    activity - i.e., an action's being of this and not that
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>> activity -
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    is a function played by emotion. Concepts like internal state
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>> and
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    intention are derivative from operation/action/activity, not
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    fundamental.
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>>    Andy
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>> __________________________________________
>
> >>>>>>> _____
>
> >>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>
> >>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> __________________________________________
>
> >>>>>> _____
>
> >>>>>> xmca mailing list
>
> >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>> __________________________________________
>
> >>>>> _____
>
> >>>>> xmca mailing list
>
> >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>> __________________________________________
>
> >>>> _____
>
> >>>> xmca mailing list
>
> >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> --
>
> >>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>
> >>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>
> >>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>
> >>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>
> >>> __________________________________________
>
> >>> _____
>
> >>> xmca mailing list
>
> >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> >>>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> __________________________________________
>
> >> _____
>
> >> xmca mailing list
>
> >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
> >--
>
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >*Andy Blunden*
>
> >Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>
> >Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>
> >http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
>
> >
>
> >__________________________________________
>
> >_____
>
> >xmca mailing list
>
> >xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> >http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
>
> _____
>
> xmca mailing list
>
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>



-- 
*Robert Lake  Ed.D.
*Associate Professor
Social Foundations of Education
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
Georgia Southern University
P. O. Box 8144
Phone: (912) 478-0355
Fax: (912) 478-5382
Statesboro, GA  30460

 *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
midwife.*
*-*John Dewey.
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