Haydi -- Are you talking about a specific law or regulation?
Helena
On 3/31/13 3:54 AM, "Haydi Zulfei" <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>Hi
>Not to think I was just emotionally articulating , I refer you to the
>same 'laws and regulations' ; please see what the contents of those laws
>and regulations are ; that will be what you dub now as ('societal'
>'social' meaning) , social codes for ALL the people's behaviour in a
>society , in this case , endorsed and dictated from the above , the elite
>, the SYSTEM , the Messiahs to keep the status quo sanctioned possibly
>moralized by them , too . Then , for just one example , nationalistic
>patriotic-based slogan of 'keeping our Nation's benefit' is the 'social
>meaning' for some class-based people's concept of 'exploitation' . When ,
>as you refer , they are now being contested , there might appear ruptures
>within it , at times the elite being able to replace it with some other
>'meaning' ; however , the contest within each person belonging to what
>class , etc. , will lead to the emergence of versatile 'personal
>meanings' : concession , compromise ,
> destructive acts , toppling altogether if the particular 'personal
>sense' takes the place of the 'social' .
>Best
>Haydi
>----- Forwarded Message -----
>From: Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>
>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>Sent: Sunday, 31 March 2013, 13:45:58
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is
>choice
>
>
>Dear Helena
>
>I was excused to continue but ...
>
>When Iraq was invaded by the victorious , etiquette-ering , sophisticated
>, civilized , cultured , humanitarian-held army of the GLOBALIZED ,
>CIVILIZED AMERICA , first of all , the many invaluable monumentals
>belonging to the opressed people of Iraq were plundered , sent to the
>Metropolis ; the etiquette-ering woman soldier of the civilized army had
>the Iraqi poor oppressed cruelized naked captives act according to the
>disciplines learnt at the American Headquarters ; at a red bloody dawn of
>the Afghan Horizon , one beraged etiquette-trained soldier used his
>civilized right of erecting to his firm legs raising his rifle very
>honourably up , slaughtered many many innocent asleep sweet or bitter
>dreaming afghan people from different ages with the politest manner of
>citizenship ; the badly mutilated parts of the body of small children
>floating in the Gulf waters , their dolls away from their warm bosoms ,
>were taken from the blood-smeared waters ; thousands
>
>and thousands of workers clung to the lower rung of the ladder have been
>expelled and are being expelled from their workplaces ; some of the best
>scholars in the rank of the learned and the educated in the most
>progressive civilized countries were thrown out of their holy fertile
>soil of knowledge and wisdom , etc.etc. . You and Manfred beholding these
>unprecedented scenes of etiquette , decency , and sophistication
>personality-promoting self-ascending acts , with the achieved level of
>attained PERSONAL SENSE grown out of your own activities and interactions
>with the other I,s , knowing the fact that the many billions of the
>victimized American soldiers' money went repeatedly to the bail-outs for
>the Messiahs of Capitalism , had any bit of fun of a scanty comparison
>between ... ??
>
>I do know you are a very industrious workplace consultant acting not just
>learning about ...
>
>Best
>
>Haydi
>
>
>
>________________________________
>
>From: Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>
>To: "ablunden@mira.net" <ablunden@mira.net>; "eXtended Mind,
>Culture,Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
>Sent: Sunday, 31 March 2013, 1:16:42
>
>Subject: Re: [xmca] Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is
>choice
>
>
>
>Andy --
>
>
>
>Very complicated, but illustrative because of that.
>
>
>
>To start with, in the US, bank employees are almost never represented by
>
>
>unions (I do not know of any at all, in fact, except at the Amalgamated
>
>
>Bank in Chicago where they are represented by UNITE, for historical
>
>
>reasons that I won't go into here). Most bank employees are part of the
>
>
>swelling low-wage workforce that clings to the bottom rung of a ladder
>
>
>into white-collar, "professional" jobs, often offering no job
>
>
>security,access to healthcare, benefits, etc.
>
>
>
>However, if one of these workers showed up in one of our training courses
>
>
>(and unrepresented workers sometimes do) they would probably discuss their
>
>
>working conditions with us and the rest of the class, but be advised
>
>
>never, never to get into a fit of rage at work. They would be advised
>
>
>instead to talk privately with other workers about any bullying that was
>
>
>going on, see if their interpretation of the supervisor's behavior was
>
>
>confirmed by others, and take good notes in the likelihood that some of
>
>
>the supervisor's behavior violated company policy or one of the state or
>
>
>federal laws governing discrimination or safety (which includes harassment
>
>
>and stress) at work. After a period of collective planning with other
>
>
>workers and some comprehensive note-taking, there might be something that
>
>
>can be done. It might be possible to get the supervisor disciplined, for
>
>
>example, or even removed.
>
>
>
>You may note that I'm not using the terms "superior" or "menial." Do you
>
>
>supposed there's a translation factor here? I also wonder at the use of
>
>
>the phrase "social etiquette." I think I will substitute the phrase
>
>
>"professional behavior."
>
>
>
>So we are imagining a bank customer who is taken aback by the sight and
>
>
>sound of a bank employee who gets very angry, and who expresses that
>
>
>anger, at a person who appears to be his boss. Well, if I were that
>
>
>customer, I would think first about what this tells me about the social
>
>
>context of that particular workplace. I am very aware of the levels of
>
>
>stress experienced by workers who have to behave in a certain
>
>
>"professional" manner while at the same time doing complex tasks involving
>
>
>record-keeping and counting, and who are held to all-or-nothing standards
>
>
>regarding the property that they handle. This is true of clerks in the
>
>
>Post Office, too, who handle money and stamps.
>
>
>
>Before this gets too long, I'll just say that I agree, there is no
>
>
>omniscient observer to tell us what the "societal meaning" of something
>
>
>is. In fact, if Manfred and I were standing in line at that bank where
>
>
>this happened, it might be fun for us to compare our "personal sense" of
>
>
>what we saw.
>
>
>
>Helena
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 3/30/13 6:34 AM, "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Helena, consider the following scenario which Manfred uses to illustrate
>
>
>>what he calls "personal sense" and "societal meanings":
>
>
>>
>
>
>> "People do not appropriate the use of signs and their meanings
>
>
>> during social interactions in an impartial way. They interpret
>
>
>> and use them in the light of their actually elicited motives
>
>
>> along with the motives they assign to the interaction partner.
>
>
>> The societal meaning of the used signs does not have to match
>
>
>> the individually assigned personal sense. For example, an
>
>
>> outsider may well interpret a public fit of rage by a
>
>
>> low-ranking bank employee towards his superior as an inexcusable
>
>
>> violation of social etiquette. However, for the menial employee,
>
>
>> it may well be a reassertion of self-esteem in response to a
>
>
>> humiliating directive" (p. 22).
>
>
>>
>
>
>>What I see is that the "low-ranking bank employee" might, for example,
>
>
>>have been a union member, maybe even attended one of your training
>
>
>>course the previous week. Whatever the reason, the response is not
>
>
>>immediately "personal", but arises from the employee's commitments to
>
>
>>projects including projects other than that embodied in the practical
>
>
>>norms of the bank as a profit-making enterprise (aka "social
>
>
>>etiquette"). What is personal is "the motivating sphere of
>
>
>>consciousness, a sphere that includes our inclinations and needs, our
>
>
>>interests and impulses, and our affect and emotion." (Vygotsky, Thinking
>
>
>>and Speech, chapter 7, quoted on the same page by Holodynski). As
>
>
>>Manfred points out, these motivations, etc., are not just a subset of
>
>
>>"societal meanings". Personal sense is something qualitatively
>
>
>>different, which is acquired in the course of participation in a variety
>
>
>>of (societal) activities (or projects).
>
>
>>
>
>
>>The kind of conflict which could arise in this scenario is what Vasilyuk
>
>
>>had in mind when he considered what he called "life relations" which may
>
>
>>conflict with each other and generate personal crises. In fact, all of
>
>
>>Vasilyuk's work depends on the fact that a person has commitments to
>
>
>>multiple projects, which are both societal and personal in their
>
>
>>ontological status. "Activities" (or projects) exist, and it is thanks
>
>
>>to such activities that we have concepts, and only thus it is possible
>
>
>>for us to understand human action, because human actions are not
>
>
>>generally to be explained by their immediate goals, but rather make
>
>
>>sense only when seen as part of larger ("molar") projects. Without being
>
>
>>able to grasp, using concepts, the various of projects motivating a
>
>
>>person's actions and underlying their emotional expression displayed as
>
>
>>they do so, it would be impossible to understand human action. But I do
>
>
>>agree with Martin in one respect (23/03/2013) - there is no omniscient
>
>
>>observer to tell us what is the "societal meaning." In ANL's time, the
>
>
>>Politburo was supposed to play that role, but that was an illusion
>
>
>>anyway. Now we see life more as a fabric woven of divers threads. But I
>
>
>>am not concerned about being provided with "a criterion for choosing
>
>
>>between projects" - the individual's actions and their emotional
>
>
>>responses signal to us their practical relation to the various projects
>
>
>>underway in their life, and make them comprehensible to themselves and
>
>
>>others.
>
>
>>
>
>
>>My point is just that the binary contast between personal sense and
>
>
>>societal meaning is untenable.
>
>
>>
>
>
>>Rather, activities, as particular instances (or realisations) of a
>
>
>>concept mediate between the universal concepts provided in our material
>
>
>>culture, and individual actions. All these "can be verified in a purely
>
>
>>empirical way."
>
>
>>
>
>
>>Andy
>
>
>>
>
>
>>Helena Worthen wrote:
>
>
>>> Carol --
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>> Certainly. And this difference has implications. For example: Learning.
>
>
>>> When one learns a job that one does for art's sake, one learns it
>
>
>>> differently (or is taught it differently) than when one learns a job
>>>for
>
>
>>> the utilitarian motive of receiving money. Or, another example: social
>
>
>>> context. The place where one practices a job that one does for art's
>
>
>>>sake
>
>
>>> is likely to be unregulated, whereas the place where one practices a
>>>job
>
>
>>> that one does to earn money is going to be -- or is supposed to be
>
>
>>> regulated. These regulations govern the relationship between the worker
>
>
>>> and the person/s who employ him/her/. Etc.
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>> Helena
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>> On 3/27/13 9:40 PM, "Carol Macdonald" <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>>> Helena
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>> Andy points out in his book (An interdisciplinary theory of activity)
>
>
>>>>that
>
>
>>>> people may work for arts sake, but they may have a utilitarian motive
>
>
>>>>for
>
>
>>>> their work, for example working for the money. I think you may be in
>
>
>>>> agreement with this.
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>> Carol
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>> On 28 March 2013 00:20, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>>> Martin --
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> Apologies for lurking, following by cryptic/petulant message.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> The point being that the same action can, depending on what activity
>
>
>>>>> system you're looking at it from, mean two very different things. And
>
>
>>>>> they
>
>
>>>>> can be in conflict, ranging from a cool, subdued conflict, to a very
>
>
>>>>>hot
>
>
>>>>> one. Specifically (since my interest lies in how people negotiated
>
>
>>>>> decent
>
>
>>>>> conditions of work), someone can be doing a job for the purpose of
>
>
>>>>> earning
>
>
>>>>> a living, and care not one whit about what the industry is (could be
>
>
>>>>> weaving cloth, making bombs, dumping garbage pails in a restaurant,
>
>
>>>>> grading papers). Or the person can be doing a job for the purpose of
>
>
>>>>> doing
>
>
>>>>> the job. Most studies of the workplace assume that people at work are
>
>
>>>>> working for the purpose that the firm/company/enterprise/industry is
>
>
>>>>>set
>
>
>>>>> up for. When they overlook the possibility that two very different,
>
>
>>>>> sometimes conflicting activities are taking place (an activity system
>
>
>>>>> defined by motive/purpose), then they can't discern how people are
>
>
>>>>> feeling, how they're learning to do the job, how they're managing
>
>
>>>>>their
>
>
>>>>> effort, etc etc.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> Thanks for asking.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> Helena
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> On 3/27/13 1:42 PM, "Martin Packer" <packer@duq.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>> Hi Helena,
>
>
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>> Which point are you referring to? There have been so many!
>
>
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>> Martin
>
>
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>> On Mar 27, 2013, at 1:13 PM, Helena Worthen
>>>>>><helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>
>
>>>>>> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>> Hello -- Exactly my point in my MCA article on using AT to study
>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> work.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>> Helena Worthen
>
>
>>>>>>> Hworthen@illinois.edu
>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>> On 3/22/13 8:40 AM, "Holodynski, Manfred"
>
>
>>>>>>> <manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de> wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Dear colleagues,
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> thank you very much for all your valued comments on my article.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> There
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> are
>
>
>>>>>>>> a lot of aspects already discussed and I have some difficulties to
>
>
>>>>>>>> follow
>
>
>>>>>>>> all lines of argumentation. Therefore, I would like to answer to
>
>
>>>>>>>>the
>
>
>>>>>>>> following:
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> 1. Emotions as psychological function within the macrostructure of
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> As Andy claims it I get my Activity Theory from AN Leont'ev and I
>
>
>>>>>>>> focused
>
>
>>>>>>>> especially on his concept of macrostructure of activity and its
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> levels
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> of
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity that is related to motives, actions that are related to
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> goals
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> and operations that are related to the conditions under which an
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> action
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> is given. And Andy gets precisely to the heart of it when he
>>>>>>>>stated
>
>
>>>>>>>> that
>
>
>>>>>>>> my article needs to be read with attention to motivation and how
>
>
>>>>>>>>the
>
>
>>>>>>>> macrostructure of an activity is related to the motives and goals
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> of an
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> individual. One activity can be realized by different actions, and
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> one
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> action can realize different activities.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> May I quote Andy's words:
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> " Because motives are not given to immediate perception; they have
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> to
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> be
>
>
>>>>>>>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the
>
>
>>>>>>>> success,
>
>
>>>>>>>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> both
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> is
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> an
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> ""actions
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> activities (!) (MH)"". It is the emotions which signal (internally
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> and
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> externally) the success, etc., etc., that is, in an action's
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> furthering
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> an activity, and it is this which makes manifest and actual that
>
>
>>>>>>>> connection between action and activity, for both the
>
>
>>>>>>>> observer/participant
>
>
>>>>>>>> and the individual subject.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind",
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> or
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> intelligent infants, etc."
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> a) Take the example of the opening of the window. That's the
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> behavior.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> What's the goal?
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> b) Imagine the person is a leader and opens the window in order to
>
>
>>>>>>>> greet
>
>
>>>>>>>> his followers and to hold a speech. That's the goal. What is the
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity?
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> c) If one look at the circumstances one can derive that the speech
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> is a
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> part of a political activity in order to celebrate the election
>
>
>>>>>>>> victory.
>
>
>>>>>>>> So, if the leader also feels pride and enthusiasm about the
>>>>>>>>victory
>
>
>>>>>>>> there
>
>
>>>>>>>> is coincidence between the publically assigned meaning and the
>
>
>>>>>>>> personally
>
>
>>>>>>>> felt sense of the situation. However, it may also be possible that
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> he
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> doesn't feel pride but a great burden and he personally feels to
>>>>>>>>be
>
>
>>>>>>>> overloaded with the duties and future expectations. Then the
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> societal
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> meaning assigned by the followers to this situation and the
>
>
>>>>>>>>personal
>
>
>>>>>>>> sense assigned by the leader himself are not congruent. The leader
>
>
>>>>>>>> framed
>
>
>>>>>>>> this situation under an achievement perspective whether he is able
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> to
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> fulfill the leadership.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> But, note when we talk about actions and activity, then we speak
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> about
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> an
>
>
>>>>>>>> advanced level of activity e.g. in children or adults, but not in
>
>
>>>>>>>> infants
>
>
>>>>>>>> who start to have intentions but still not a mental image of a
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> future
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> state of affairs.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> 2. Differentiation between the basic level in infants and advanced
>
>
>>>>>>>> level
>
>
>>>>>>>> in older children:
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> - A young infant has not already established a goal-driven level
>>>>>>>>of
>
>
>>>>>>>> actions. In the first weeks one can observe the acquisition of
>
>
>>>>>>>>first
>
>
>>>>>>>> operations and of first expectations what should happen. But these
>
>
>>>>>>>> expectations are not yet represented as a mental image about the
>
>
>>>>>>>> desired
>
>
>>>>>>>> future states. This is the product of the acquisition of a sign
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> system
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> which enables the person to evoke and imagine a future state in
>
>
>>>>>>>>the
>
>
>>>>>>>> here
>
>
>>>>>>>> and now and to start to strive for it. And for this starting
>>>>>>>>point,
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> not
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> only to imagine different future states, but also to select one of
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> them
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> and to start to strive for it, emotional processes come into play
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> that
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> color one of the imagined future state e.g. in a state worth
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> striving
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> for
>
>
>>>>>>>> and that mobilize the executive power to start striving for it.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> However, the ability to form such notions of goals and to
>>>>>>>>transform
>
>
>>>>>>>> them
>
>
>>>>>>>> into actions is not something that occurs automatically. It
>>>>>>>>emerges
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> in
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> a
>
>
>>>>>>>> long-drawn ontogenetic learning process in which the attainment of
>
>
>>>>>>>> goals
>
>
>>>>>>>> through actions is tried, tested, and increasingly optimized.
>>>>>>>>Older
>
>
>>>>>>>> children are
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> So, for an understanding of my emotion concept the macrostructure
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> of an
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity is very decisive because I embedded emotions as a
>>>>>>>>specific
>
>
>>>>>>>> psychological function within the macrostructure of an activity.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Best
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Manfred
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Prof. Dr. Manfred Holodynski
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Institut für Psychologie in Bildung und Erziehung
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Westfälische Wilhelms-Universität Münster
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Fliednerstr. 21
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> D-48149 Münster
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34311
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34310 (Sekretariat)
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> +49-(0)-251-83-34314 (Fax)
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>http://wwwpsy.uni-muenster.de/Psychologie.inst5/AEHolodynski/index.htm
>>>>>l
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> manfred.holodynski@uni-muenster.de
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>
>
>>>>>>>> Von: Andy Blunden [mailto:ablunden@mira.net]
>
>
>>>>>>>> Gesendet: Freitag, 22. März 2013 04:13
>
>
>>>>>>>> An: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
>
>>>>>>>> Cc: Holodynski, Manfred
>
>
>>>>>>>> Betreff: Re: Polls are closed: Manfred Holodynsk's article is
>
>
>>>>>>>>choice
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Mike, Manfred gets his Activity Theory from AN Leontyev, rather
>
>
>>>>>>>>than
>
>
>>>>>>>> Engestrom's "systems of activity."
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> So actions and activities are defined by their goals and motives.
>
>
>>>>>>>>So
>
>
>>>>>>>> Manfred's article needs to be read with attention to motivation
>>>>>>>>and
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> how
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> the structure of an activity is related to motives and goals.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> Because
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> motives are not given to immediate perception; they have to be
>
>
>>>>>>>> inferred/learnt. Emotional expression and experience signal the
>
>
>>>>>>>> success,
>
>
>>>>>>>> failure, frustration, expectation, etc. of goals and motives for
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> both
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> participant/observers and the individual subject themself, emotion
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> is
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> tied up with motives and goals and therefore with the structure of
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> an
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity. One and the same action could be part of different
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> actions.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> It
>
>
>>>>>>>> is the emotions which signal (internally and externally) the
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> success,
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> etc., etc., that is, in an action's furthering an activity, and it
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> is
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> this which makes manifest and actual that connection between
>>>>>>>>action
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> and
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> activity, for both the observer/participant and the individual
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> subject.
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> So there is no metaphysics here. No hypothetical "states of mind",
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> or
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> intelligent infants, etc.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> It's all in there.
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> Andy
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> mike cole wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Andy - and here I was wondering why operation/action/activity
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> were
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> not prominent in Manfred's article. Where does he lay out the
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> views in
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> this note? Am I reading too superficially as usual? Seems
>
>
>>>>>>>>>important
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> for me to get clear about!
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Mike
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, March 21, 2013, Andy Blunden wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Think of your illustration,Martin, about whether, in opening
>
>
>>>>>>>>>the
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> window, you were acting as a technician or moral leader. I.e.,
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> the
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> meaning of the action lies in the activity of which it is a
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> part,
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> which is not immediately given. Manfred does not refer this to
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> "intention" or "belief". Manfred is quite specific that the
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> signalising and self-perception of an action in relation to an
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> activity - i.e., an action's being of this and not that
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> activity -
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> is a function played by emotion. Concepts like internal state
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> and
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> intention are derivative from operation/action/activity, not
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> fundamental.
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>> Andy
>
>
>>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>
>
>>>>>>>> _____
>
>
>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>
>
>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>> __________________________________________
>
>
>>>>>>> _____
>
>
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>
>
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>> __________________________________________
>
>
>>>>>> _____
>
>
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>
>
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>>>>>>
>
>
>>>>> __________________________________________
>
>
>>>>> _____
>
>
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>
>
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>>
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>> --
>
>
>>>> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>
>
>>>> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
>
>
>>>> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
>
>
>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>
>
>>>> __________________________________________
>
>
>>>> _____
>
>
>>>> xmca mailing list
>
>
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>>>>
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>> __________________________________________
>
>
>>> _____
>
>
>>> xmca mailing list
>
>
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>>
>
>
>>
>
>
>>--
>
>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>>*Andy Blunden*
>
>
>>Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>
>
>>Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
>
>
>>http://marxists.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
>
>
>>
>
>
>>__________________________________________
>
>
>>_____
>
>
>>xmca mailing list
>
>
>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________________
>
>
>_____
>
>
>xmca mailing list
>
>
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>__________________________________________
>
>_____
>
>xmca mailing list
>
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>__________________________________________
>_____
>xmca mailing list
>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
Attachment:
default.xml
Description: application/xml
__________________________________________ _____ xmca mailing list xmca@weber.ucsd.edu http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca