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Re: [xmca] Help With Spanish/Portuguese
Hello Carol,
In my limited comprehension, for so far I worked articulating Freire
and Vygotsky and just in a couple of occasions, for Freire more
important than the relation letter/phoneme is the relation word/social
context. For him written language was not just a way to access
information, but more importantly, written language was a way to
expression and social change.
It was for a reason that when the military cup in 1964 in Brazil took
place, they took Freire methodology but emptied it from all social and
political discourse, and it became the simulacrum that supported the
hideous "MOBRAL".
O Movimento Brasileiro de Alfabetização (The Brazilian Moviment of
Literation), better known as MOBRAL, was one of the projects created
by the Brazilian government, by the Law 5.379, at the 15th of December
1967, and proposed to literate of youths and adults, with a vision of
"conducting the human person and acquiring techniques of reading,
writing and calculation as a what to integrate in ints community,
allowing better life conditions" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOBRAL
Emilia Ferreiro was popular in Brazil for the critics her works
implied to MOBRAL, leading the way for the spread of Piaget theory in
the late 70's and 80's. And them Vygotsky came as a critic to Piaget
and Emilia Ferreiro in the 90's grounded in the works "Mind in
Society" and "Thought and Language" (E.Hanfmann e G.Vakar edition) -
to this day 80% of works that cites Vygotsky only cites these two
works.
This speech is in 1992, when critics to Piaget where arising and
Vygotsky were begining to be "spread out" (at least the two works
cited above).
Wagner
2013/1/12 Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>:
> Wagner
>
> What an interesting post. We don't know the intricacies of
> the implementation of the Freire project. Perhaps the learners were asked
> to read about what is called by Geertz "experience-far" concepts.
>
> Carol
>
> On 12 January 2013 13:47, Wagner Luiz Schmit <wagner.schmit@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hello Kellog,
>>
>> He is talking in a kind of mix of Spanish and Portuguese, so
>> yes, Portuguese speakers can comprehend him.
>>
>> I think that the question of who is Emilia Ferreiro is already covered.
>>
>> But one thing is important to note: Many say that the "caminho suave" (soft
>> way) for alphabetization proposed by Ferreiro, based on the teaching of the
>> relationship between letters and phonemes and with a image in the form of
>> the letter to help the child remenber, is mechanistic and led to a very
>> very serious problem we face in Brazil now: a very high percentage of
>> people with functional illiteracy. Much before Ferreiro propositions,
>> Vygotsky already criticized this kind of alphabetization, that seems to be
>> gathering force again with some dubious "neurological background" from the
>> cognitive sciences, for the lack of opportunity for the child to give
>> meaning for this.
>>
>> Many educators in Brazil "blame" Piaget and Ferreiro for the lack of
>> capacity for many Brazilians (even in the university) to comprehend a text,
>> they can read but can't give it a meaning and much less criticize it, i.e.,
>> no abstract reasoning about the text. Paulo Freire ways seems to goes in
>> the Vygotsky direction, but we must remenber also that he worked with adult
>> workers, not elementary school children.
>>
>> I am hyper simplifying things here, and of course there are other factors
>> to this phenomena, but this is the kind of discussion you would hear about
>> in these parts.
>>
>> Wagner
>>
>> 2013/1/11 kellogg <kellogg59@hanmail.net>
>>
>> > I wonder if I could get some help from our Latin American friends.
>> > There is this video of Freire speaking in 1992 about his relationship to
>> > Vygotsky:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eg8IQ7LlEyY
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > I gather that what he says is roughly this:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > a) When he first read Vygotsky, it appeared to him that Vygotsky had
>> > copied his own work! (That's a joke--he acknowledges that Vygotsky had
>> died
>> > nearly sixty years earlier)
>> >
>> > b) Vygotsky goes much further than Piaget in his understanding of
>> language
>> > acquisition.
>> >
>> > c) There is some OTHER person ("Emilia Fujera"?) who goes much further
>> > still in her scientific understanding of language acquisition but who
>> does
>> > not go nearly as far as Freire himself in the ideological/political
>> > understanding of education.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > For some reason, Freire is speaking in Spanish, although I imagine a
>> > Portuguese speaker could understand him. The problem is that I can't
>> follow
>> > very well, having never really studied either language. Can somebody
>> help?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Who is "Emilia Fujera"?
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > David Kellogg
>> >
>> > Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>> >
>> >
>> > --------- 원본 메일 ---------
>> >
>> > *보낸사람*: Wagner Luiz Schmit <wagner.schmit@gmail.com>
>> > *받는사람* : "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
>> > *날짜*: 2013년 1월 11일 금요일, 01시 16분 02초 +0900
>> > *제목*: Re: [xmca] Activity concept
>> > Thank you very much Goncu and Larry!
>> >
>> > Larry this conversation is very interesting! I though that this kind
>> > of discussion already happened, but I wasn't able to find something
>> > like this. And Rubinshtein is in the middle of the discussion also!!!
>> >
>> > Wagner
>> >
>> > 2013/1/10 Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com<
>> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> >
>> > >:
>> > > Wrong site
>> > > THIS is the specific site
>> > >
>> > > http://ethicalpolitics.org/seminars/stetsenko.htm
>> > >
>> > > which carries on an exploration of your question
>> > >
>> > > Larry
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com<
>> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> >>
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> Hello Wagner
>> > >>
>> > >> This site
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> >
>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ethicalpolitics.org%2Fseminars&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1357700187,d.cGE&biw=1024&bih=523&wrapid=tlif135783394963311&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=iw&ei=-eXuUJ-WHIOnigKHloHIDw
>> > >>
>> > >> I found helpful for situating this question among an intimate group
>> > >> carrying on a conversation on this topic.
>> > >> Larry
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Goncu, Artin <goncu@uic.edu<
>> http://mail2.daum.net/hanmail/mail/MailComposeFrame.daum?TO=goncu@uic.edu
>> >>
>> > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Hello Wagner,
>> > >>>
>> > >>> The following review that addresses the views of Vygotsky and
>> Leont'ev
>> > may
>> > >>> be helpful. Best, ag
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Göncü, A., & Gauvain, M. (2011). Sociocultural Approaches to
>> > >>> Educational Psychology: Theory, Research, and Application. In K.
>> > Harris,
>> > >>> J. Brophy., G. Sinatra, & J. Sweller (Eds.). APA Educational
>> Psychology
>> > >>> Handbook: Contributions to Education. Vol.1.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> On Thu, January 10, 2013 8:26 am, Wagner Luiz Schmit wrote:
>> > >>> > Greetings and Happy New Year to all!!!
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > I may be doing a silly questions and probably someone already
>> > answered
>> > >>> > about this, but I searched the web for something more concise and
>> > >>> > could not find (yet):
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > What are the differences on the concept of Activity between
>> Vygotsky,
>> > >>> > Leontiev and Ilyenkov?
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > I will tackle some Leontiev and Ilyenkov texts from the
>> Marxists.org
>> > >>> > archives and I am also reading the text "Criticisms of Vygotsky’s
>> > >>> > concept of Activity" by Andy Blunden. But I wanted to have a "large
>> > >>> > picture view" or at least some positioning to do not get lost in my
>> > >>> > readings.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Thank you.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > Wagner Luiz Schmit
>> > >>> > __________________________________________
>> > >>> > _____
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>> >
>> > >>> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> >
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> Artin Goncu, Ph.D
>> > >>> Professor,
>> > >>> Educational Psychology
>> > >>> College of Education M/C 147
>> > >>> 1040 W. Harrison St.
>> > >>> Chicago, IL 60607
>> > >>> http://education.uic.edu/epsy/browseour%20faculty.cfm
>> > >>> (312) 996-5259
>> > >>>
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>> > >>>
>> > >>
>> > >>
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>> >
>> > <kellogg59@hanmail.net>
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>
>
> --
> Carol A Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> Developmental psycholinguist: EMBED
> Academic, Researcher, Writer and Editor
> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
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