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Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals
- To: "ablunden@mira.net" <ablunden@mira.net>, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
- Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals
- From: Arturo Escandon <arturo.escandon@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 15:08:39 +0900
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That is a killer book, and Ilyenkov's chapter is one of the best summaries of truly dialectic materialism ever, must be read together with Leontiev's one.
Best
Arturo
On 3 Jan 2012, at 13:01, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> Well, you will see at the bottom of that page a link to http://www.marxists.org/subject/psychology/works/lektorsky/essay_77.htm
> which is an article-length presentation of the book. This was included in a marvellous Progress Publishers collection which included Ilyenkov's Concept of the Ideal, and AN Leontyev's "Activity and Consciousness", both also on marxists.org, with 9 other articles.
>
> Could someone read that 1977 article and pull out an important quote?
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>> Thanks Andy--
>>
>> It would be really interesting to read jointly, but no idea in the world of how to accomplish that!!
>> mike
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>> http://www.marxists.org/archive/lektorsky/subject-object/index.htm
>>
>> Andy
>> mike cole wrote:
>>
>> Great to have Lektorsky brought into this conversation. I
>> wonder, is the
>> book widely available in English? Did I miss a link somewhere?
>> mike
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Haydi Zulfei
>> <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
>> <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>wrote:
>>
>>
>> Overcoming the deep-thinking and worry of the problems of
>> the Region ,
>> Dear Larry , I came to my study to read anew the once-read
>> article sent to
>> you and , happy to say , I'm exactly at the point you're
>> stationing on page
>> 22 . Yes , I accept the WHOLE of what V. A . Lektorsky
>> says in this article
>> and His "Subject,Object,Activity" , a book , indeed .
>> Thank you , too , for
>> your insistence on finding a way for 'dialogues' . Haydi
>> ( out Net
>> problems most of the time ! hope it works ! )
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com
>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
>> To: Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
>> <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>; "eXtended Mind, Culture,
>> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>> Cc: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
>> <mailto:boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>>
>> Sent: Monday, 2 January 2012, 10:02:13
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals
>>
>>
>> Robert, I want to agree with you and acknowledge the
>> poetic way Haydi
>> expressed these relations.
>>
>> Haydi, I also am enjoying reading the article on Social
>> Being and the
>> Human Essence. On page 22 Lektorsky says,
>>
>> The self is seen as a system of relations, between myself
>> and others.
>> Outside of this system of relations, I simply cannot
>> exist. I am by my
>> nature a DIALOGICAL essence.... This approach gives rise
>> to a whole range
>> of questions which simply did not exist for Descartes or
>> Fichte (they begin
>> to emerge with Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit). There is
>> the problem of
>> my Being-for-others, Being-for-myself, and the
>> Being-of-others-for-me....
>> In my view, introspection should not be conceived as a
>> relation of
>> someone to something purely INSIDE him - or herself, but
>> as a SPECIAL WAY
>> of relating oneself to others. Introspection is really
>> 'EXTRA-spection'. A
>> human being ALWAYS lives on the BOUNDARY between self and
>> other.
>>
>> Haydi, do you accept the centraity of the QUESTIONS that
>> Lektorsky is
>> posing as necessary themes to have conversations about???
>>
>> I'm going back to reading the article. The method of written
>> composition [the genre] in how David Bakhurst is
>> presenting these themes is
>> enjoyable as I love listening in on others conversations.
>>
>> Haydi thanks for taking the steps into action to respond
>> to my reflections
>> that come from left-field.
>>
>> Larry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 9:17 AM, Haydi Zulfei
>> <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
>> <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> You are so kind , Robert !! At times , in my confusion ,
>> I don't know how
>> to :-) Encouraging !! Thanks a lot !! I did wish you a
>> happy New Year ,
>> too . Haydi
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
>> <mailto:boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>>
>> To: Haydi Zulfei <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
>> <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>; "eXtended Mind,
>> Culture,
>>
>> Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>>
>> Sent: Monday, 2 January 2012, 7:47:41
>>
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals
>>
>>
>> Wow Havdi!
>> Have you written about this in greater detail anywhere?
>> If so can you direct me? If not, you need to.
>> Happy New Year!
>> Robert Lake
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 6:04 AM, Haydi Zulfei
>> <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com
>> <mailto:haydizulfei@rocketmail.com>>
>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> True Andy !
>>
>> I didn't continue : " The moment the floundering
>> footstep of the IDEAL
>>
>> touches the firm GROUND of the 'world of reality' , as to
>> its nature , it
>> jumps once again in a space of a blink , yearning to unite
>> anew with her
>> beloved consort fere , the ACTION , towards a re-start of
>> another pulse of
>> 'subjectivity' "
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
>> <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>> Sent: Sunday, 1 January 2012, 17:58:41
>> Subject: Re: [xmca] speaking of rocks and cathedrals
>>
>>
>> Well, it becomes an ideal I guess.
>>
>> And on that I beg to differ with just one of
>> Haydi's dot points.
>>
>> Haydi said: "Ideal , when reified, is no longer
>> ideal."
>>
>> I would have thought that when an ideal is
>> reified, then it attains the
>>
>> most stable of all possible forms of reification. That
>> pile of rocks, if
>> exumed 2000 years later, may still exhibit the properties
>> of a cathedral if
>> the thought was put into action by Saint Exupery.
>>
>> For 2012, I guess I look forward to the deepening
>> economic decline of
>>
>> Europe and the US putting pressure on China to stimulate
>> its domestic
>> market, and thereby lend more power to the rising tide of
>> resistance among
>> ordinary people demanding the rule of law in their
>> country. And I would
>> dearly like to see Syria join Libya and build something
>> worthwhile from the
>> ashes of their previous efforts to shake off imperialist
>> domination. And it
>> would be good to see Iran join the Arab Spring too. And
>> keep the US the
>> hell out of intervening in that country.
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> mike cole wrote:
>>
>>
>> I want to join the voices for wishing all
>> "present" the best of
>>
>> fortune in
>>
>> the new year. We now reach from Invertebrates
>> to God in our modest
>> explorations of the processes of
>> human development. :))
>> The following thought came to me in
>> thinking about what ensues if one
>> accepts the invitation to imagine
>> what will happen in the next year --
>> what you hope for, what you fear,
>>
>> what
>>
>> you could not expect and so
>> can't think about. It is from St.
>> Exupery.
>> A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile
>> the moment a single man
>>
>> contemplates
>>
>> it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.
>> Antoine de Saint-Exupery<
>>
>> http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/antoinedes161736.html>
>>
>> Its an interesting thought, but "negative" in
>> the sense that it tells
>>
>> us
>>
>> what a rock ceases to be but does not
>> specify what it has become "the
>> moment it a single man contemplates
>>
>> it."
>>
>> It seems apt to the discussion.
>> An awful lot takes place in that moment!
>> Happy New Year,
>> mike
>>
>> --
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *Andy Blunden*
>>
>> Joint Editor MCA:
>> http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
>>
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
>>
>> Book:
>> http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>
>>
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>>
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>>
>> --
>>
>> Robert Lake Ed.D.
>>
>> Assistant Professor
>> Social
>> Foundations of Education
>> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and
>> Reading
>> Georgia Southern University
>> P. O. Box 8144
>> Phone: (912)
>> 478-5125
>> Fax: (912) 478-5382
>> Statesboro, GA 30460
>>
>>
>> Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and
>> education is its midwife.
>>
>> -John Dewey.
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>>
>> -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>> <http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857>
>>
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
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