Hi Andy Your comment below is a very helpful way to focus the conversation. I understand from Gloria Quninones that the Spanish word /una vivencia/ has the same meaning as the Russian /perezhivanie /and my German friends tell me that /ein Erlebnis/ has the same meaning in German. The problem for English speakers is that Russian, Spanish and German has the word but English does not. The term is usually translated as "a lived experience" (though I like "an adventure"). Of course a lived experience is also a self-regulated psyhological system of personality, but to describe it so would seem to me to be misleading. If I am not mistaken /perezhivania /is an event or action, whereas "personality" and "system" do not carry the temporal connotation of event or action, and is both subjective and objective." I would like to take a suggestion from Tony in using the heuristic between in*formation and info*mation can also be applied to e*motion. E*motion is an action like an adventure or wayfaring withIN the world. From your relflections the terms "perezhivana", "una vivencia", "ein erlebnis", are pointing to a family resemblance to the term "e*motion" as "oriented movement withIN an adventure" and the concept of "movement" becomes the KEY to lived experience. Then we must still explore the relational patterns that connect [and possibly also differentiate] "e*motion" withIN "systems" such as the system of personality. 2nd point The article Volker attached brought in Charles Taylor's vertical and horizontal dimensions as a heuristic. The vertical dimension moves between passive and active poles of situated agency. He suggests in modernity we are oriented to the "self" actualization or "will" as "freedom" However the horizontal dimension with poles pointing to COMMITMENTS as oriented towards the "self" or oriented towards "alterity" is an ETHICAL orientation that the situated agent must engage with. In other words the person as agent can make "conclusive" moves in the adventure of lived experience TOWARDS either "self" development or "development of "alterity" From Taylor's perspective this is where the acts of "freedom" withIN adventures can be explored. I recognize that Taylor is categorized within some discussions as promoting a "liberal" value and this may have to be critiqued. However Taylor's heuristic grid coordinates is one possible way to consider "actions" withIN "adventures". E*motion is central to consider in this adventure or wayfaring and e*motion is central to ORIENTING within this adventure. Orientation within adventures is a possible bridge to open conversations between cultural historical and "intersubjective" phenomenological accounts. This perspective of "intersubjectivity" withIN lived experience is in danger of becoming reified as MERELY social interaction in the now moments [synchronic] and requires the theory of cultural-historical awareness to situate intersubjective e*motion within an historical/developmental account. [diachronic] I'm attaching a 3 page article by Rene van der Veer continuing this topic. Larry On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 3:47 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote: > Volker, Vygotgsky says clearly enouigh that a /perezhivanie /is a unit (NB > unit not unity) for analysis of development, but /what/ is this unit? That's > the point. "Self-regulated psychological system of personality" does not > answer the question; it's like answering the question "Who will be the next > Pope" with "a suitable person." I understand from Gloria Quninones that the > Spanish word /una vivencia/ has the same meaning as the Russian > /perezhivanie /and my German friends tell me that /ein Erlebnis/ has the > same meaning in German. The problem for English speakers is that Russian, > Spanish and German has the word but English does not. The term is usually > translated as "a lived experience" (though I like "an adventure"). Of course > a lived experience is also a self-regulated psyhological system of > personality, but to describe it so would seem to me to be misleading. If I > am not mistaken /perezhivania /is an event or action, whereas "personality" > and "system" do not carry the temporal connotation of event or action, and > is both subjective and objective. > What do you think? > Andy > > Volker Bunzendahl wrote: > >> Hi Mike, >> yes, for me >> >> the phrase, "self-regulated >> psychological system of personality, >> >> sounds a bit constructivist, and maybe open for the road to Lewin and >> "systemic" approaches. >> >> On the other hand Fernando says a few lines earlier: Perezhivanie emerged >> ... as a new unity for the analysis of development, which carries out the >> integration of cognitive and affective into a new qualitative system that >> characterizes human development. >> >> Which for me opens the door to what Portes later in the book points out, >> and where Fernando says (page 47): /Subjectivity is not a reflection. Ii is >> a production that cannot be deduced from the external circumstances within >> which human actions take place./ >> >> >> ... >> I think I am not uncomfortable, - perhaps a word we perhaps not understand >> - yet - makes us communicate? But it would be nice to hear especially >> Russian speaking folks - what they are able to read into the word, and >> Fernando. >> >> Volker >> >> >> Den 01-10-2011 03:10, mike cole skrev: >> >>> Fernando's text is at papers for discussion at xmca. >>> >>> I am uncomfortable with the hugely broad range of definitions of >>> perezhivanie floating around. Isn't the phrase, "self-regulated >>> psychological system of personality," applicable to a large range of >>> phenomena? >>> >>> mike >>> >>> On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 12:00 PM, Volker Bunzendahl<volker@volker.dk>** >>> wrote: >>> >>> P.P. Portes& S. Salas (ed.)(2011): /Vygotsky in >>>> the 21st century society - advances in cultural historical theory and >>>> praxis with non-dominant communities/, Peter Lang, New York >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Den 26-09-2011 18:20, Joao skrev: >>>> >>>> Volker and Mike, what is reference Rey and Arias texts? >>>>> >>>>> thanks >>>>> >>>>> João Martins >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**u** >>>>> csd.edu <http://ucsd.edu/><xmca-bounces@weber.**ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu> >>>>> >] >>>>> On >>>>> Behalf Of Volker Bunzendahl >>>>> Sent: segunda-feira, 26 de setembro de 2011 07:46 >>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] ISCAR (review) Perezhivanie + vivencia >>>>> >>>>> I have all the abstracts on a usb key, but I am not sure it is ok >>>>> (copyright) to lay them out here. >>>>> >>>>> The article by Fernando in the Portes book, is very interesting >>>>> (revolutionary)!. >>>>> >>>>> But, if Fernando or others can help: Rey; 2011:49: /Perezhivanie/ >>>>> should >>>>> be >>>>> understood as a self-regulated psychological system of personality. >>>>> >>>>> In the next chapter in the book, Guillermo Arias (2011:57) introduces >>>>> the >>>>> concept of /vivencia/. He cites Vygotsky: Vivencia is the true dynamic >>>>> unit >>>>> of conscience, and Arias explains: Vivencia is the basic functional >>>>> unit >>>>> of >>>>> the psychological, or the mind or subjectivity. >>>>> >>>>> My question is, what is the relation between this two words, is >>>>> Perezhivanie >>>>> the more personal part of vivencia, or?? >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, it seems to me, that this focus on personality, subjectivity >>>>> questions is a very important matter: is it activity, or activity >>>>> systems, >>>>> >>>>> or vivencia, which it the unit, we start with. And is vivencia, in a >>>>> way, >>>>> an >>>>> activity system? >>>>> Arias, 2011:59: Marx's idea that the essence of human beings is social >>>>> relations and not activity, or work only is very important. Indeed, >>>>> social >>>>> >>>>> relations encompass work and other relationships (Marx&Engels, 1986). >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> The funny thing - in my mind - is, that the talk about actions >>>>> research, >>>>> and >>>>> here subjectivity get connected. >>>>> How? >>>>> I would like to find out, if Fernando - when he talks about sense, or >>>>> when >>>>> >>>>> he cites A.A. Leontjev, using the term /sense field/, had Kurt Lewins >>>>> "Felt-Theorie", Field-Theory, in mind. - Vygotsky and Lewin met a few >>>>> times, >>>>> and as I see it, Vygotsky uses some of Lewins thoughts about the >>>>> dynamics >>>>> of >>>>> the social and the personal fields. >>>>> >>>>> ... >>>>> >>>>> Volker >>>>> >>>>> Den 24-09-2011 05:15, mike cole skrev: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Volker-- >>>>>> >>>>>> Fernando expressed an interest in having his paper in the Portes et al >>>>>> volume discussed at XMCA and I have a copy somewhere. I will post when >>>>>> possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Its odd you mention the AR-CHAT issue of MCA, Volker. I was hoping >>>>>> there would be more discussion of the papers since we had access to >>>>>> all >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>> them. >>>>> >>>>> Are you proposing that we post some more from that symposium or that >>>>>> get Bella to send us her talk?? >>>>>> >>>>>> mike >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 6:16 AM, Volker Bunzendahl<volker@volker.dk> >>>>>> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> second thoughts, part 3 >>>>>> >>>>>>> symposium nr. 103: Testing the limits of CHAT in diverse contexts and >>>>>>> global realities. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It was - for me - the highlight of the conference, where the topic, >>>>>>> subjectivity changed my way of being me, in the moment. >>>>>>> The room was filled up, people were sitting on the floor, - and Pedro >>>>>>> Portes, Alex Kozulin, Luis C. Moll and - the most impressive of them >>>>>>> all, - Fernando Gonzales Rey changed our view of looking at CHAT, at >>>>>>> Vygotskys different working periods (moments) - and at the same time >>>>>>> made theory practical, in questions about immigration and >>>>>>> non-dominant communities, about how there is no subjectivity without >>>>>>> objectivity, that is our subjectivity is constructed by social >>>>>>> >>>>>>> participation in cultures. >>>>>> I will not, here, start a more detailed review of this symposium. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Instead I will show you a picture of the event, and I will point to >>>>>>> the book, which expands what this symposium was about. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The book is named: P.P. Portes& S. Salas (ed.)(2011): /Vygotsky in >>>>>>> the 21st century society - advances in cultural historical theory and >>>>>>> praxis with non-dominant communities/, Peter Lang, New York >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This might be an answer to Mike, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Were there any discussions of the theory/practice relationship that >>>>>>> seemed >>>>>>> >>>>>>> to you helpful? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But I think MCA, nr. 2, about action reseach and CHAT maybe >>>>>>> influenced me, . while I listened to Bella Kotiks speech. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Volker >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Den 14-09-2011 00:20, Volker Bunzendahl skrev: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Volker Bunzendahl, Lektor >>>>>>> Cand.psych. og Konsulent >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Arbejde: >>>>>>> Professionshøjskolen University College Nordjylland (UCN) >>>>>>> Læreruddannelsen i Aalborg - Efter/videreuddannelse Mylius Erichsens >>>>>>> vej 131, 9210 Aalborg SØ >>>>>>> Tlf: 98 14 02 00 >>>>>>> Mobil: 28 73 46 20 >>>>>>> Mail: volker@volker.dk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Privat: >>>>>>> Gammel Aalborgvej 16. 7741 Frøstrup >>>>>>> Privat: 86 96 46 14 >>>>>>> Mobil: 28 73 46 20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mail: volker@volker.dk >>>>>>> Home Page: volker.dk >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Uddannelse i virkeligheden >>>>>>> University College Nordylland arbejder med uddannelse, udvikling og >>>>>>> innovation inden for fire hovedområder: det sundhedsfaglige, det >>>>>>> pædagogiske, det tekniske og business. UCN har ca. 7000 studerende på >>>>>>> erhvervsakademi- og professionsbacheloruddannelser******, over 9000 >>>>>>> kursister og studerende på efter- og videreuddannelse og ca. 750 >>>>>>> ansatte. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> University College of Northern Denmark works with education, >>>>>>> development and innovation within four main fields: healthcare, >>>>>>> education, technology and business. We have approximately 7000 >>>>>>> students in AP and BA degree programmes, more than 9000 course >>>>>>> participants and students undergoing continuing and further education >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>>>> training. We have about 750 employees. >>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>> _____ >>>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>>>> >>>>>> _____ >>>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- >>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3916 - Release Date: >>>>>> 09/24/11 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>> Volker Bunzendahl, Lektor >>>>> Cand.psych. og Konsulent >>>>> >>>>> Arbejde: >>>>> Professionshøjskolen University College Nordjylland (UCN) >>>>> Læreruddannelsen >>>>> i >>>>> Aalborg - Efter/videreuddannelse Mylius Erichsens vej 131, 9210 Aalborg >>>>> SØ >>>>> Tlf: 98 14 02 00 >>>>> Mobil: 28 73 46 20 >>>>> Mail: volker@volker.dk >>>>> >>>>> Privat: >>>>> Gammel Aalborgvej 16. 7741 Frøstrup >>>>> Privat: 86 96 46 14 >>>>> Mobil: 28 73 46 20 >>>>> >>>>> Mail: volker@volker.dk >>>>> Home Page: volker.dk >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Uddannelse i virkeligheden >>>>> University College Nordylland arbejder med uddannelse, udvikling og >>>>> innovation inden for fire hovedområder: det sundhedsfaglige, det >>>>> pædagogiske, det tekniske og business. UCN har ca. 7000 studerende på >>>>> erhvervsakademi- og professionsbacheloruddannelser****, over 9000 >>>>> kursister >>>>> og >>>>> >>>>> studerende på efter- og videreuddannelse og ca. 750 ansatte. >>>>> >>>>> University College of Northern Denmark works with education, >>>>> development >>>>> and >>>>> innovation within four main fields: healthcare, education, technology >>>>> and >>>>> business. We have approximately 7000 students in AP and BA degree >>>>> programmes, more than 9000 course participants and students undergoing >>>>> continuing and further education and training. We have about 750 >>>>> employees. >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>> _____ >>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>>> _____ >>>>> xmca mailing list >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3920 - Release Date: 09/26/11 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> Volker Bunzendahl, Lektor >>>> Cand.psych. og Konsulent >>>> >>>> Arbejde: >>>> Professionshøjskolen University College Nordjylland (UCN) >>>> Læreruddannelsen i Aalborg - Efter/videreuddannelse >>>> Mylius Erichsens vej 131, 9210 Aalborg SØ >>>> Tlf: 98 14 02 00 >>>> Mobil: 28 73 46 20 >>>> Mail: volker@volker.dk >>>> >>>> Privat: >>>> Gammel Aalborgvej 16. 7741 Frøstrup >>>> Privat: 86 96 46 14 >>>> Mobil: 28 73 46 20 >>>> >>>> Mail: volker@volker.dk >>>> Home Page: volker.dk >>>> >>>> >>>> Uddannelse i virkeligheden >>>> University College Nordylland arbejder med uddannelse, udvikling og >>>> innovation inden for fire hovedområder: det sundhedsfaglige, det >>>> pædagogiske, det tekniske og business. UCN har ca. 7000 studerende på >>>> erhvervsakademi- og professionsbacheloruddannelser****, over 9000 >>>> kursister >>>> og studerende på efter- og videreuddannelse og ca. 750 ansatte. >>>> >>>> University College of Northern Denmark works with education, development >>>> and innovation within four main fields: healthcare, education, >>>> technology >>>> and business. We have approximately 7000 students in AP and BA degree >>>> programmes, more than 9000 course participants and students undergoing >>>> continuing and further education and training. We have about 750 >>>> employees. >>>> >>>> ______________________________****____________ >>>> _____ >>>> xmca mailing list >>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca> >>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ______________________________**____________ >>> _____ >>> xmca mailing list >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >>> >>> >>> ----- >>> No virus found in this message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 10.0.1410 / Virus Database: 1520/3930 - Release Date: 09/30/11 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> > -- > ------------------------------**------------------------------** > ------------ > *Andy Blunden* > Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1> > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ > Book: http://www.brill.nl/default.**aspx?partid=227&pid=34857<http://www.brill.nl/default.aspx?partid=227&pid=34857> > > > ______________________________**____________ > _____ > xmca mailing list > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca> >
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