Re: [xmca] LSV- Dynamic Assessment-Feurestein-Kozulin Article

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

You got it as to lessons to take away from the interchange with Achilles,
Valerie! We are all always
imagining our experience, in part, and that part imagined part is hugely
amplified in a multi-national, multi L1,L2,multi-backgrounded, discourse of
xmca.

The discussion must seem bonkers to try to follow! But at least lots to grab
on to.

We are so disparate that many of us do not know what TOEIC means. For use
marginalized types, i looked it up on google:  *Test of English for
International Communication* (*TOEIC*). Sure seems a good distance from DA,
but its not moving toward an automated version of DA as far as I can tell.
Just the same ole out of context testing for "everyday ability."

Is that right?
mike

On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 12:08 AM, vwilk <vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp> wrote:

> Dear Members,
> I have been a "read only" member for a long time, then ventured into
> discussion when a topic came up that I had some chance of joining. Perhaps,
> like many, I am too busy with school duties etc to have enough time to read
> articles and write something. Every topic is inviting, especially all this
> about Dynamic Assessment that is heating up quick!
> There were some mails that mentioned "Zoped" and even a mention of
> "potential" to replace "proxmate" for the p. Engelstrom (Tom Sawyer) and
> David Kellogg do this (see Mrs. Gaskell), and perhaps Vygotsky in his time
> (I have three of his books and havn't had time to even skim them)! good
> solid literary metaphors can provide tons of informative contextualizing.
> Politics slips in, too. L2 learning and testing is big -- evaluating
> competence as you go along and evaluating it to get funding are totally,
> absolutely DIFFERENT.
>
> And I live in Japan, don't speak Japanese well enough to be a member, hey,
> I am not "a member"; I am "a visiting scholar" (who happens to be a Faculty
> member (weird ambiguities dog me at every step). I guess the point is, I
> don't know who the other "read only" people are and cannot guess at all if
> there would be repercussions at any level (or not!) but still feel I have to
> cloak whatever I talk about in deep metaphor, which nevertheless needs a key
> (allegoresis). I am more paranoid than I would like to be, but experiential
> learning is talked about and done (to some extent) but not the way I do it.
> For some reason, and I can't figure out why or how to get through the
> thicket (feels like a Dante metaphor being born). Anyway, it's not the
> metaphor, it's how you use/interpret it.
>
> What this has to do with Achilles note (below) is there are a lot of us in
> very weirdly different situations. For example, I suddenly disappeared
> (vanished) with the onset of a strange disease just when I was beginning to
> think I could say something that fit into an on-going conversation, which is
> surely the best mailgroup/grouplist (I don't even know what it's called) I
> know, and am only back on-line after a long spate of rehabilitation -- but
> not back-to-normal due to memory loss and loss of certain cognitive skills.
> But as Mike shows in this answer and Achilles shows in his questions, let us
> by all means be as receptive, careful, and intuitive as possible because we
> all have certain kinds of filters, but they should only screen out the
> unacceptably unconnected, the rude (language and so on), and something (I'm
> not sure what) like "the casually dashed-off note without sufficient
> contextualizing for it to merge with an on-going thread" (just a patch-in).
>
> This list makes me sure that there are people everywhere, maybe even here
> in the country where I reside, who are trying to do what I am trying to do,
> but I don't know where they are and if we are allowed to talk! That said,
> let's keep talking. L2 is really big in my world and TOEIC (to me) is a
> "dumbing down strategy" that makes me feel ill.
> Valerie Wilkinson
>
> Faculty of Informatics, Shizuoka University
>
>
>
> (2010/11/28 13:32), mike cole wrote:
>
>> Oh! Achilles!
>> I apologize for projecting my understanding on to your situation. Of
>> course,
>> we all do it all the time (see my interchange with Eugene where I
>> completely
>> misinterpreted his meaning in a critical way. It is a great example of how
>> difficult x-cultural understanding is via internet text in English, never
>> mind face to face in a common language!!
>>
>> In part I was caught by newspaper stories of government armored cars in
>> battles with favela gang members. That was the violence to which I was
>> referring. If the level of violence is exagerated here in the US, good.
>>
>> In part I was also expressing my concern, in the note on dynamic
>> assessment,
>> about economic and political linkages between what we do as (presumably)
>> well meaning scholars and what is done with the output of our work by
>> commercial interests.
>>
>> Again, apologies for the misunderstanding. I mean no disrespect. Clearly
>> time to go off line!
>> mike
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 4:31 PM, Achilles Delari Junior<
>> achilles_delari@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>  Dear Prof. Michael Cole.
>>> I don't understand what you are saying to me?I'm a pensioner because deep
>>> health problems, I can notpay for this important studies. You can not
>>> interpret thatI say that this is not valid. That I was suggesting the PIE
>>> is
>>> not very nice. You can not understand something like this.
>>> But I can not learn by this official way - for instance thereis not in
>>> Rio
>>> and São Paulo, and Porto Alegre that stay themain PIE representants in
>>> Brazil??? Where are they? I never know when you Mike, are trying to help
>>> or
>>> joking with persons... I was only trying to stay in touch with your post.
>>> And you call me about Rio.
>>> There was no big planes destructing the Redemptor Christ in Rio, yet...
>>> that I have the notice. I don't understand about what you are really
>>> talking
>>> about. Sorry. I live in state Paraná almostMato Grosso do Sul, Almost
>>> Paraguay.... I cant travel to Rioin order to help people in convulsive
>>> social situation there.
>>> And I really dont understand. This is not only because my bad English,
>>> but
>>> I have no intelectual resources to understand yourstatements. This is
>>> what I
>>> can finally conclude.
>>>
>>> This is the last time I apologize to say something stupid here.
>>> And you don'y need unsubscribe me, I will do this by myself bythe correct
>>> proceediments.
>>> Achilles Delari Junior.Umuarama, Paraná, Brazil.
>>> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 10:59:55 -0800
>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] LSV- Dynamic Assessment-Feurestein-Kozulin Article
>>> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
>>> To: achilles_delari@hotmail.com
>>> CC: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>
>>> We read about the situation in Rio, Achilles, but it is difficult to feel
>>> from so far away. Your note reminds us of the personal nature of the
>>> violence and the conditions that engender it. At a distance it looks
>>> horrific.
>>>
>>>
>>> You also remind me of the economic links of our practices intended to
>>> "promote development"  if they are adopted outside of the academic
>>> hothouse.
>>> Perhaps an automated DA program will be written and will become the
>>> favored
>>> means of instruction at those high dollar DA academies you write of!
>>>
>>> Invest now  :-)
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:41 AM, Achilles Delari Junior<
>>> achilles_delari@hotmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you very much, I was familiar with the idea of "dinamic
>>> assessment",
>>> since article from Brown and Ferrara (1985), that I read around
>>> 1992-1993.
>>> But until know, have not put nothing similar in practice.
>>> Unfortunetally I am more emotionally ill than the people I hope someday
>>> to
>>> help. I apreciate very much ideas from Feurstein too, but, in Brazil
>>> there
>>> are no other way to learn "PEI - programa de enriquecimento instrumental"
>>> "Program of Instrumental Enrichement" - without many many dolars... Then,
>>> perhaps this article could give us some help and hope. For my friends
>>> that
>>> are sufficiently strong to stay at the front...
>>>
>>> Thank you very much.
>>> Achilles from Brazil.
>>>
>>>
>>> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 09:12:30 -0800
>>> From: lchcmike@gmail.com
>>>
>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> CC: alexk@icelp.org.il
>>> Subject: [xmca] LSV- Dynamic Assessment-Feurestein-Kozulin Article
>>>
>>>
>>> This summary by Alex Kozulin, taken from the web, may be helpful for
>>> those
>>> who are unfamiliar with the notion of dynamic assessment that plays a
>>> central role in the P&L article.
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
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