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Re: [xmca] The Missing Part
Thanks David !
2010/7/12, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>:
>
> Ulvi:
>
> Yes, it is missing from the Collected Works version. The Collected Works
> edition is based on the 1956-1982 Russian editions. There were many cuts
> made in 1956 and not all of them were repaired in 1982. These cuts are not
> noted and the only way to find them is to go through the 1934 and the
> 1956-1982 two versions paragraph by paragraph, which is what we've been
> doing for three years now for our Korean translation.
>
> Kozulin is the only person who makes any part of the 1934 edition available
> in English. But the problem with Kozulin is that he was only supposed to
> update--not rewrite--the 1962 Hanfmann-Kasanin translation which, most
> people will agree, is not a translation so much as a selective paraphrase
> (it was HALF the length of the original book). That means that although the
> Kozulin book includes extremely well translated passages of the 1934
> material (and priceless footnotes and a great intro) the main body of the
> text is a pale copy of Thinking and Speech.
>
> I have to agree with Rene van der Veer and Luciano Meccaci: the 1934
> edition was virtually complete when Vygotsky died, and this is therefore the
> only canonical edition. No adequate translation of this edition into English
> exists. Therefore, we have no authoritative edition of Thinking and Speech.
>
> If (like me) you cannot read and understand it well enough in Russian, my
> advice is to read it in French (but this is still the 1982 edition) or
> Italian (the 1934 edition in all its glory, with only a very few minor
> errors!). Or you could learn Korean!
>
> David Kellogg
> Seoul National University of Education
>
> --- On Mon, 7/12/10, ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: ulvi icil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [xmca] The Missing Part
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
> Date: Monday, July 12, 2010, 12:53 AM
>
>
> David,
> Is this part missing also in Col. Works edition?
> Ulvi
>
>
>
> 2010/7/12, David Kellogg <vaughndogblack@yahoo.com>:
> >
> > This is the beginning of Chapter Two of Thinking and Speech that was not
> > translated into English. I posted it once several years ago, and Anton
> > thought it didn't add very much.
> >
> > I think it does: it structures the whole chapter, because it makes it
> clear
> > that Freud, Levy-Bruhl, and Blondel share a common idealist basis as well
> as
> > a common canonical stature.
> >
> > ≪Мы полагаем, . говорит он, . что настанет день, когда мысль ребенка
> по
> > отношению к мысли нормального цивилизованного взрослого будет помещена в
> ту
> > же плоскость, в какой находится ≪примитивное мышление≫,
> охарактеризованное
> > Леви-Брюлем, или аутистическая и символическая мысль, описанная Фрейдом и
> > его учениками, или ≪болезненное сознание≫, если только это понятие,
> > введенное Блонделем, не сольется в один прекрасный день с предыдущим
> > понятием≫ (1, с.408).1 Действительно, появление его первых работ по
> > историческому значению
> > этого факта для дальнейшего развития психологической мысли должно быть по
> > справедливости сопоставлено и сравнено с датами выхода в свет ≪Les
> fonctions
> > mentales dans les societes inferieures≫ Леви-Брюля, ≪Толкования
> сновидений≫
> > Фрейда или ≪La conscience morbide≫ Блонделя. Больше того, между
> этими
> > явлениями в различнейших областях научной психологии есть не только
> внешнее
> > сходство, определяемое уровнем их исторического значения, но глубокое,
> > кровное, внутреннее родство . связь по самой сути заключенных и
> воплощенных
> > в них философских и
> > психологических тенденций. Недаром сам Пиаже в огромной мере опирался в
> > своих исследованиях и построениях на эти три
> > работы и на их авторов.
> >
> >
> > “It is therefore our belief", says (Piaget), "that the day will come when
> > child thought will be placed on the same level in relation to adult,
> normal,
> > and civilized thought as ‘primitive mentality’, as defined by Lévy-Bruhl,
> as
> > autistic and symbolical thought as described by Freud and his disciples
> and
> > as ‘morbid consciousness,’ assuming that this last concept, which we owe
> to
> > M. Ch. Blondel, is not simply fused with the former.” (p. 201-202). In
> > reality, the appearance of this first works, in regard to the historic
> > importance as a fact for future reference in the development of
> > psychological thought must be on the compared with the appearance of “Les
> > fonctions mentales dans les societes inferieures” of Levi- Bruhl, Freud’s
> > “The interpretation of dreams’, or Blondel’s “La conscience morbide”. It
> is
> > not simply that between these phenomena in the development of the field
> of
> > scientific psychology there is a formal
> > resemblance, determined by their level of historic importance, but that
> > there is a deep, internal kinship, a connection in essence which is
> visible
> > in their philosophical and psychological tendencies. Not without reason
> does
> > Piaget himself base in enormous measure his own studies and constructions
> on
> > these three works and on their authors.
> >
> > Last night I was re-reading Bleuler's criticisms of Freud in "Autistic
> > Thinking" and I also came upon these words, which Vygotsky quotes
> > approvingly.
> >
> > "Examining the more grown-up child, I also do not much observe that he
> > would prefer the imaginary apple to the real. The imbecile and the savage
> > are alike practitioners of Realpolitik and the latter, (exactly like us,
> who
> > stand at the apex of cognitive ability) makes his autistic stupidities
> only
> > in such cases when reason and experience prove insufficient: in his ideas
> > about the universe, about the phenomena of nature, in his understanding
> of
> > diseases and other blows of destiny, in adopting measures to shield
> himself
> > from them, and in other relationships which are too complex for him.”
> >
> > It seems to me that here and elsewhere in this chapter Bleuler is arguing
> > for, and Vygotsky is agreeing with, a position that is simultaneously
> > universalist, relativist, and developmentalist. It is universalist in the
> > sense that it argues for a universal human autistic response to areas of
> > experience of which we are ignorant. It is relativist in the sense that
> it
> > argues for the independence of an "autistic" response from rationality
> and
> > an autonomous art and autonomous humanities based on that independence
> that
> > is in no way subordinate to rationality. It is developmentalist in the
> sense
> > that it argues for an autistic response which develops out of a narrow,
> > immediately realistic (perception based?) reality function rather than
> vice
> > versa (as in Freud, Janet, and Levy-Bruhl).
> >
> > David Kellogg
> > Seoul National University of Education
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
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