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Re: [xmca] Influence



Oh yes of course. I did ask Karl. Karl like everyone else holds that Vygotsky read Hegel. I have also emailed Alex Kozulin. I am still waiting for evidence other than Semyon Dobkin and suppositions. I am in a minority of one here.

For example, look what Vygotsky has to say about Hegel in "Psychology of Art". Nothing. Except to ridicule the Hegelian Rosenkranz. But he has lots to say about Plekhanov, the no. 1 interpreter of Hegel in Russia in LSV's youth.

Andy

Mike Cole wrote:
Well, you might also ask Mr Levitin.
mike

On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:51 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    Yes but ... David referred to this. As far as I can see all the
    biographers of Vygotsky get this idea from the same source, Semyon
    Dobkin's interview in Karl Levitin's book. We have to go there and
    make our own mind up about what it means.  And the only other
    evidence is reading what Vygotsky says in his published writings.

    In my opinion, neither of these sources lad one to believe that he
    actually read Hegel.

    Did anyone ever read Thor Hayerdal's "Kontiki" about how everyone
    insisted that balsa wood sank in water. He tried it. It didn't sink.
    Turned out that one writer had said but this without trying it, and
    everyone repeated what that one author had said, and it became an
    established fact.

    Andy


    Martin Packer wrote:

        This is my favorite:

        "[Vygotsky] presided over local Jewish history study circle
        (where he met Hegel)"

         From "Time line of Lev Vygotsky's Life":

         <http://inst.usu.edu/~mimi/courses/6260/theorists/Vygotsky/vygotime.html
        <http://inst.usu.edu/%7Emimi/courses/6260/theorists/Vygotsky/vygotime.html>>

        I've often wondered what Hegel was doing during the early 20th
        century. Apparently he was studying history in Russia! I wonder
        what he and LSV talked about.

        Martin


        On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:05 AM, Martin Packer wrote:

            "Both Mead and Vygotsky studied Hegel's writings intensively"

            Van der Veer, R. (1987).  The relation between Vygotsky and
            Mead reconsidered. A comment on Glock.
            Studies in East European Thought. 34, Numbers 1-2 / July, 1987

                Do people have any opinions on this?

                I suspect that the concept of "influence" is more widely
                applied than can be justified. When is a "source" an
                "influence"?

                For example, Google gave me the following quotes:

                ---------------

                "Vygotsky was influenced by Marxist theorists"
                (wik.ed.uiuc.edu <http://wik.ed.uiuc.edu>)

                "Vygotsky was influenced by Dewey" (Cambridge Companion)

                "Vygotsky was influenced by his contemporaries" (Peter
                Lloyd, Charles Fernyhough)

                "Vygotsky was influenced by thinkers like Spinoza,
                Freud, Marx and Piaget" (www.oise.utoronto.ca
                <http://www.oise.utoronto.ca>)

                "Vygotsky was influenced by the writings of Marx,
                Engels, and Hegel. He was also influenced by Piaget,
                Blonskii, and Werner" (Moll)

                "Vygotsky was influenced by Janet's ideas on ..."
                (Grigorenko)

                "Vygotsky was influenced by and influenced many
                theorists. Jean Piaget, Jerome Bruner, Albert Bandura,
                Etienne Wenger, and Dewey are just a few." (jonliu.com
                <http://jonliu.com>)

                ---------------

                I think the first three are tenable, but the rest are
                not. We are "influenced" by people we interact with and
                those answering to the same times and problems as us.
                But what can  I make of a claim that Vygotsky was
                "influenced" by Spinoza, who lived about 250 years
                before him? Everyone contributes to an intellectual
                situation and we respond to that situation, but does
                that amount to "influence"? "Influence" belongs to a
                behaviorist's lexicon I think, as it discounts any
                agency on the one being "influenced."

                I'm sure I'm not the first person to raise this. Is
                there a distinction which is usually brought to bear here?

                Andy


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        Martin Packer, Ph.D.
        Associate Professor
        Psychology Department
        Duquesne University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA 15282
        (412) 396-4852

        www.mathcs.duq.edu/~packer/ <http://www.mathcs.duq.edu/%7Epacker/>

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