Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?

Paul, "reflective authenticity" is certainly rare in my experience and I
have never come across it in LSV. "Please explain".
Andy
At 12:24 AM 24/11/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Andy,
>
> I think you're confusing identity with reflective authenticity,
> something quite rare in this world.
>
> Pau
>
>Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> It does seem to me that LSV's understanding of "personality" is very close
>to what we might call "identity" and his approach is not dissimilar to
>Mead's approach to the Self, too. But as Boris indicates, the concept is
>not made an "independent subject of thought" but rather peripheral, which
>is not surprising given what we have seen.
>
>Re Paul's observation: of course people have an identity whether or not
>there is a social "identity crisis" making the idea a part of popular
>psychology. But for example, while I said that Aristotle did not know the
>problem, his approach was the you were an Athenian, or a Spartan, or
>whatever; one's identity was one's city. In many societies including
>today's, identity is in that sense not problematic and unquestioned within
>a certain social setting and therefore escapes attention. While there is of
>course a sense in which identity is imposed by others, the whole point is
>that it comes to be voluntarily adopted or learnt; it becomes problematic
>only when it an individual is for one reason or another unable or unwilling
>to voluntarily put on the imposed mask, yes? When *everyone* you know or
>have heard of stands with pride at the sound of the Star Spangled Banner
>then being an American is not part of any identity problem (no such time
>ever existed of course); only when some brave soul refuses to stand do we
>discover this as an element of identity. yes?
>
>Andy
>At 10:56 AM 23/11/2007 -0800, mike wrote:
> > >
> > > Apparently, those who believe that the problem of identity,
> identification,
> > > self determination were not independent subjects of thought and
> > > investigation by LSV are correct. I can only propos a few of his
> statements
> > > on the development of personality and self consciousness (this connection
> > > Vygotsky clearly did describe)
> > >
> > > "the difference between child and adolescent may be best expressed by
> > > Hegel's position that distinguished things in themselves and things for
> > > oneself. He said that the all things are initially in themselves, but
> > > matters do not stop at this point and in the process of development the
> > > thing turns into a thing for onself. Thus, he said, a person (man) in
> > > himself is a child, whose task is to leave behind that abstract and
> > > undeveloped "in himself" and in so doing, in order to become for
> himself in
> > > a way that he is in the meantime only in himself, that is, to become
> a free
> > > and intelligent being. This very transformation of the child into an
> adult
> > > (man) in himself in the adolescent -- a person (man) for himself--
> > > constitutes the major content of the entire crisis of this transitional
> > age.
> > > It is an epoch of the maturation of personality and world view
> (Pedology of
> > > the Adolescent, Comp Works, v4, p. 199)
> > >
> > > Personality becomes for itself, when it has previously been
> > in itself, through what it
> > > manifests through others (History of Dev of HPF, Coll. Works, Vol 3, p.
> > 144)
> > >
> > > The following addition from same work is very important:
> > >
> > > James Baldwin correctly noted that the concept of "I" develops in a child
> > > from the concept of others. The concept, personality, that is, the
> social,
> > > reflected, concept, is built on the basis of the fact that the child
> > uses in
> > > relationship to himself those means of adaptation which he uses in
> > > relationship to others. This is why it is possible to say that
> personality
> > > is the social in us. (vol 3, p. 324)
> > >
> > From Varshava and Vygotsky (1931) *Psychological Dictionary*:
> > >
> > > Identification (Freud) - the equating, making similar, of oneself to
> > another
> > > personality, the adoption by oneself of the characteristics of a specific
> > > person. Identification plays a huge role in reminisences, dreams and
> > > creativity. The psychological sense of identification comes down to the
> > > widening of one's circle of experiences (perezhivania), to the
> > enrichment of
> > > innner life.
> > >
> > > Personality is a term indicating a unity in the indivualenss of all
> > everyday
> > > life and psychological manifestation of persons; a person (man) accepting
> > > himself as a certain individual unity and entity in all processes of
> change
> > > that take place in the organism and the psyche - this is personality.
> > > Disease of personality is expressed in the disintegration of this unity.
> > >
> > > And also:
> > > In *Psychology of Art *in the chapter on Hamlet Vygotsky accentuates the
> > > concept, "second birth." In the works of AN Leontiev one also encounters
> > > this term in connection with the development of self-consciousness during
> > > adolescence.
>
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  Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
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Received on Sat Nov 24 02:01 PST 2007