Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?

 Andy, I never claimed it tvo be from LSV. I didn't know that the words used here had to come from sacred scriptures. I was thinking of people who act from deep beliefs despite the consequences. I thought you understood that. Not sure the LSV theorized it but I'm sure that his practice was directed toward developing the that type of "identity" or "personality".
   
  Paul
   
  Paul

Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
  Paul, "reflective authenticity" is certainly rare in my experience and I
have never come across it in LSV. "Please explain".
Andy
At 12:24 AM 24/11/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>Andy,
>
> I think you're confusing identity with reflective authenticity,
> something quite rare in this world.
>
> Pau
>
>Andy Blunden wrote:
> It does seem to me that LSV's understanding of "personality" is very close
>to what we might call "identity" and his approach is not dissimilar to
>Mead's approach to the Self, too. But as Boris indicates, the concept is
>not made an "independent subject of thought" but rather peripheral, which
>is not surprising given what we have seen.
>
>Re Paul's observation: of course people have an identity whether or not
>there is a social "identity crisis" making the idea a part of popular
>psychology. But for example, while I said that Aristotle did not know the
>problem, his approach was the you were an Athenian, or a Spartan, or
>whatever; one's identity was one's city. In many societies including
>today's, identity is in that sense not problematic and unquestioned within
>a certain social setting and therefore escapes attention. While there is of
>course a sense in which identity is imposed by others, the whole point is
>that it comes to be voluntarily adopted or learnt; it becomes problematic
>only when it an individual is for one reason or another unable or unwilling
>to voluntarily put on the imposed mask, yes? When *everyone* you know or
>have heard of stands with pride at the sound of the Star Spangled Banner
>then being an American is not part of any identity problem (no such time
>ever existed of course); only when some brave soul refuses to stand do we
>discover this as an element of identity. yes?
>
>Andy
>At 10:56 AM 23/11/2007 -0800, mike wrote:
> > >
> > > Apparently, those who believe that the problem of identity,
> identification,
> > > self determination were not independent subjects of thought and
> > > investigation by LSV are correct. I can only propos a few of his
> statements
> > > on the development of personality and self consciousness (this connection
> > > Vygotsky clearly did describe)
> > >
> > > "the difference between child and adolescent may be best expressed by
> > > Hegel's position that distinguished things in themselves and things for
> > > oneself. He said that the all things are initially in themselves, but
> > > matters do not stop at this point and in the process of development the
> > > thing turns into a thing for onself. Thus, he said, a person (man) in
> > > himself is a child, whose task is to leave behind that abstract and
> > > undeveloped "in himself" and in so doing, in order to become for
> himself in
> > > a way that he is in the meantime only in himself, that is, to become
> a free
> > > and intelligent being. This very transformation of the child into an
> adult
> > > (man) in himself in the adolescent -- a person (man) for himself--
> > > constitutes the major content of the entire crisis of this transitional
> > age.
> > > It is an epoch of the maturation of personality and world view
> (Pedology of
> > > the Adolescent, Comp Works, v4, p. 199)
> > >
> > > Personality becomes for itself, when it has previously been
> > in itself, through what it
> > > manifests through others (History of Dev of HPF, Coll. Works, Vol 3, p.
> > 144)
> > >
> > > The following addition from same work is very important:
> > >
> > > James Baldwin correctly noted that the concept of "I" develops in a child
> > > from the concept of others. The concept, personality, that is, the
> social,
> > > reflected, concept, is built on the basis of the fact that the child
> > uses in
> > > relationship to himself those means of adaptation which he uses in
> > > relationship to others. This is why it is possible to say that
> personality
> > > is the social in us. (vol 3, p. 324)
> > >
> > From Varshava and Vygotsky (1931) *Psychological Dictionary*:
> > >
> > > Identification (Freud) - the equating, making similar, of oneself to
> > another
> > > personality, the adoption by oneself of the characteristics of a specific
> > > person. Identification plays a huge role in reminisences, dreams and
> > > creativity. The psychological sense of identification comes down to the
> > > widening of one's circle of experiences (perezhivania), to the
> > enrichment of
> > > innner life.
> > >
> > > Personality is a term indicating a unity in the indivualenss of all
> > everyday
> > > life and psychological manifestation of persons; a person (man) accepting
> > > himself as a certain individual unity and entity in all processes of
> change
> > > that take place in the organism and the psyche - this is personality.
> > > Disease of personality is expressed in the disintegration of this unity.
> > >
> > > And also:
> > > In *Psychology of Art *in the chapter on Hamlet Vygotsky accentuates the
> > > concept, "second birth." In the works of AN Leontiev one also encounters
> > > this term in connection with the development of self-consciousness during
> > > adolescence.
>
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Andy Blunden : http://home.mira.net/~andy/ tel (H) +61 3 9380 9435,
mobile 0409 358 651

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Received on Sat Nov 24 02:19 PST 2007