Re: Fwd: Fwd: [xmca] Vygotsky on Identity?

Hmmm?
   
  Well Carol, I just invented that term, or rather it bubbled up from the host within me, including, for example, Jack London, Jack Kerouac, Sean Penn, Jean Paul Sarte and Simone de Beauvoir, Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro, and lots of others widely dismissed as lunatics or irrelveant, which of course is true, as it shoud be.
   
   It's not a "competency" that one learn's in scholarly discourse (a place that rather tends to drain you of it) or is it the kind of competency one aquires from instituions where the leaden history of conquest and domination becomes codified into genuflections and polite acquiescence to what one knows is wrong, if they are still capable of that distinction without checking the code book.. It's not something you can learn without living it and risking everything. No rules, can't be reduced to syllogisms or diagrams. I think Andy may know what I meant, as well as some others hereabouts. Perhaps I should have back-channeled the comment so as to have avoided the necessity of closing the eyes of the dead so as to not embarrass anyone, as another refllective and authentic person wrote. After all, to live outside the law you must be honest,.
   
  Paul
   
   
   
   
   
   
  as e.e. cummings wrote:
   
  "children guessed but only a few,
  and down they forgot as up they grew"
   
  

Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
  Pau,
I am sore my very competent members wil know, but what is *relfective
authenticity* and why is it so rare.

I am working on African belonging and identity, and quite sure this does not
apply, but please can you tell me?
Thanks
Carol

On 24/11/2007, Paul Dillon
wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> I think you're confusing identity with reflective authenticity, something
> quite rare in this world.
>
> Pau
>
> Andy Blunden wrote:
> It does seem to me that LSV's understanding of "personality" is very close
> to what we might call "identity" and his approach is not dissimilar to
> Mead's approach to the Self, too. But as Boris indicates, the concept is
> not made an "independent subject of thought" but rather peripheral, which
> is not surprising given what we have seen.
>
> Re Paul's observation: of course people have an identity whether or not
> there is a social "identity crisis" making the idea a part of popular
> psychology. But for example, while I said that Aristotle did not know the
> problem, his approach was the you were an Athenian, or a Spartan, or
> whatever; one's identity was one's city. In many societies including
> today's, identity is in that sense not problematic and unquestioned within
> a certain social setting and therefore escapes attention. While there is
> of
> course a sense in which identity is imposed by others, the whole point is
> that it comes to be voluntarily adopted or learnt; it becomes problematic
> only when it an individual is for one reason or another unable or
> unwilling
> to voluntarily put on the imposed mask, yes? When *everyone* you know or
> have heard of stands with pride at the sound of the Star Spangled Banner
> then being an American is not part of any identity problem (no such time
> ever existed of course); only when some brave soul refuses to stand do we
> discover this as an element of identity. yes?
>
> Andy
> At 10:56 AM 23/11/2007 -0800, mike wrote:
> > >
> > > Apparently, those who believe that the problem of identity,
> identification,
> > > self determination were not independent subjects of thought and
> > > investigation by LSV are correct. I can only propos a few of his
> statements
> > > on the development of personality and self consciousness (this
> connection
> > > Vygotsky clearly did describe)
> > >
> > > "the difference between child and adolescent may be best expressed by
> > > Hegel's position that distinguished things in themselves and things
> for
> > > oneself. He said that the all things are initially in themselves, but
> > > matters do not stop at this point and in the process of development
> the
> > > thing turns into a thing for onself. Thus, he said, a person (man) in
> > > himself is a child, whose task is to leave behind that abstract and
> > > undeveloped "in himself" and in so doing, in order to become for
> himself in
> > > a way that he is in the meantime only in himself, that is, to become a
> free
> > > and intelligent being. This very transformation of the child into an
> adult
> > > (man) in himself in the adolescent -- a person (man) for himself--
> > > constitutes the major content of the entire crisis of this
> transitional
> > age.
> > > It is an epoch of the maturation of personality and world view
> (Pedology of
> > > the Adolescent, Comp Works, v4, p. 199)
> > >
> > > Personality becomes for itself, when it has previously been
> > in itself, through what it
> > > manifests through others (History of Dev of HPF, Coll. Works, Vol 3,
> p.
> > 144)
> > >
> > > The following addition from same work is very important:
> > >
> > > James Baldwin correctly noted that the concept of "I" develops in a
> child
> > > from the concept of others. The concept, personality, that is, the
> social,
> > > reflected, concept, is built on the basis of the fact that the child
> > uses in
> > > relationship to himself those means of adaptation which he uses in
> > > relationship to others. This is why it is possible to say that
> personality
> > > is the social in us. (vol 3, p. 324)
> > >
> > From Varshava and Vygotsky (1931) *Psychological Dictionary*:
> > >
> > > Identification (Freud) - the equating, making similar, of oneself to
> > another
> > > personality, the adoption by oneself of the characteristics of a
> specific
> > > person. Identification plays a huge role in reminisences, dreams and
> > > creativity. The psychological sense of identification comes down to
> the
> > > widening of one's circle of experiences (perezhivania), to the
> > enrichment of
> > > innner life.
> > >
> > > Personality is a term indicating a unity in the indivualenss of all
> > everyday
> > > life and psychological manifestation of persons; a person (man)
> accepting
> > > himself as a certain individual unity and entity in all processes of
> change
> > > that take place in the organism and the psyche - this is personality.
> > > Disease of personality is expressed in the disintegration of this
> unity.
> > >
> > > And also:
> > > In *Psychology of Art *in the chapter on Hamlet Vygotsky accentuates
> the
> > > concept, "second birth." In the works of AN Leontiev one also
> encounters
> > > this term in connection with the development of self-consciousness
> during
> > > adolescence.
>
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