There is an interesting way in which this conversation parallels one
I am listening to on another list. That is, the difference between
belief and hope.
Ed Wall
>Dear Judy,
>so glad to hear from you! Maybe we are using the word "free" in a
>different sense.
>Let's turn your example upside down. What about the torturer?? One:
>can a torturer stop the torture "at free will"? Also: is a torturer
>responsible?? All of these are relevant to understand what we mean
>by FREE will/ or freedom?? What can we "choose" to do, up to what
>degree of "freedom" or, is EVERYTHING we do determined by forces
>outside of our ability to control or maybe even to understand?
>Ana
>
>Judith Vera Diamondstone wrote:
>>Thinking has some force to it, Ana, but it is not free will.
>>
>>Think, if you will, of individuals under torture. That's the
>>thought experiment I apply to such questions. Some "break"; some
>>don't. No one thinks their way out of the torture that's inflicted.
>>Do you think the ones who don't break exercise free will?
>>I would say they exercise constraints they have practiced in other
>>situations in the past, & they have learned to read the conditions
>>in such a way that 'not-breaking' is desirable.
>>Judy
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]On
>>Behalf Of Ana Marjanovic-Shane
>>Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2006 12:55 AM
>>To: mcole@weber.ucsd.edu; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>Subject: Re: [xmca] uncertainites
>>
>>
>>I think that Luria was not right in that and that people-kind
>>proved many times that "a shadow can carry stones" indeed.
>>In fact I think that our whole science (social sciences) exists
>>because we believe that thinking (shadow) has some force in it.
>>Don't you think?
>>Ana
>>
>>Mike Cole wrote:
>>
>>>I believe the issue was constraints and free will, donna and don. Sorry for
>>>the distraction of too many words.
>>>
>>>These were the one's I was focused on. If you are interested in persuing the
>>>issue beyond snuffing it, lets.
>>>
>>>Are constraints a way of avoiding the issue of free will? And will? Luria
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>"Many observations support our view that the consideration of the voluntary
>>>act as accomplished by "will-power" is a myth and that the human cannot by
>>>direct force control his behavior any more than "a shadow can carry stones".
>>>
>>>
>>>Sniff.
>>>mike
>>>
>>>On 4/21/06, Russell, Donna L <russelldl@umkc.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi Don
>>>>
>>>>--for more word fun--
>>>>
>>>>" When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said,
>>>>"It means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less."
>>>>"The question is, said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many
>>>>different
>>>>things."
>>>>"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty,
>>>>"which is to be the master--that's all."
>>>>
>>>>Lewis Carroll
>>>>THROUGH THE LOOKING GLASS
>>>>
>>>>Donna
>>>>
>>>>Donna L. Russell, Ph.D.
>>>>Assistant Professor
>>>>Instructional Technology
>>>>Curriculum and Instructional Leadership
>>>>School of Education
>>>>University of Missouri-Kansas City
>>>>(email) russelldl@umkc.edu <mailto:russelldl@umkc.edu>
>>>>(website) http://r.web.umkc.edu/russelldl/ <
>>>>http://r.web.umkc.edu/russelldl>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Quasi-Bedurfnisse" is the sound I make when I sneeze. But I love
>>>>learning new words!
>>>>
>>>>Don Cunningham
>>>>Indiana University
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>xmca mailing list
>>>>xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>>http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Ana Marjanovic'-Shane,Ph.D.
>
>151 W. Tulpehocken St.
>
>Philadelphia, PA 19144
>
>Home office: (215) 843-2909
>
>Mobile: (267) 334-2905
>
>ana@zmajcenter.org <mailto:ana@zmajcenter.org>
>
>http://www.speakeasy.org/~anamshane <http://www.speakeasy.org/%7Eanamshane>
>
>
>
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