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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience

Larry,
I have been ruminating over these questions overnight, and Carol is of course right, that I cannot get away with claiming that "meaning" is a gerund, or at least that Vygotsky consistently uses "meaning" as part of the verb form "to mean" in "Thinking and Spech." Indeed, I am inclined now to think that Mike's comment to Carol: "Now how do we make sense of that, Carol?" was a beautiful piece of irony from an expert communicator to an expert linguist. For the way I wanted to bend the meaning of meaning in Vygoysky is more akin to how Vygotsky uses the word "sense".
I turn to Chapter 7 of "T&S" http://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/Chapter7.doc (p. 276, or search for "several zones") and I see that Vygotsky talks about "sense" much as I want to use "concept" but he seems to regard it as a psychic structure, but at the same time I cannot make sense of what he is saying other than as "activity." And when he says "Isolated in the lexicon the word has only one meaning," I can only make sense of this as a plea *not* to take meaning in that way? I find the only way to make sense of LSV's use of words is to allow that the meanings were simply unavailable to him and he had to do the best he could.
Continuing this investigation of Chapter 7, go to page 252 (or search for "grammatical category") and let's look at how LSV uses the word "category"! The rich etymology of this word is somewhat reflected in how Vygotsky uses it. According to the Oxford English dictionary, "category" dertives from the Greek kategoria, which means predication, or assertion, or accusation. It's meaning kind of branched off between philosophy - actually the sense in which Vygotsky seems to be using it, and which is the common or garden meaning, more or less - and rhetoric, see Wikipedia on "Apologetics" - in which kategoria and apologia are a pair of opposites. These words were used for respectively the prosecution and defence in the trial of Socrates, und9oubtedly also a rich source of development, albeit somewhat conflictual. But I think the meaning Vygotsky uses here is "predication" and he talks of the difference between grammatical category and psychological category, more or less how the words which come out of your mouth in good syntax only approximate the concept which is being realised in the words. He says: 

   "Thus, correspondence between the grammatical and psychological
   structure of speech may be encountered less frequently than we
   generally assume. Indeed, it may merely be postulated and rarely if
   ever realized in fact. In phonetics, morphology, vocabulary, and
   semantics - even in rhythm, metrics, and music - the psychological
   category lies hidden behind the grammatical or formal category. If
   the two appear to correspond with one another in one situation, they
   diverge again in others. We can speak not only of the psychological
   elements of form and meaning, not only of the psychological subject
   and predicate, but of psychological number, gender, case, pronouns,
   superlatives, and tenses."

but then, at last, to give some reply to your question, Larry, he adds:

   Thus, what is a mistake from the perspective of language, may have
   artistic value if it has an original source.

and quotes some lines of poetry from Pushkin.
I'm still struggling to make sense of this. :) I think Dewey's conceptions here are as close to LSV's as you can get, while remaining within the thinking of two different people working in two different contexts. 

Andy



Larry Purss wrote:

Andy,
Your comment: I don't deny that "meaning" has taken on a certain usage and is widely taken to be the attribute of a word or phrase and found in a dictionary, but I think as a scientist I prefer to see such things as objectifications of the primary source which is human speech/speaking. I think the same distinctions can be discovered in perezhivanija, experiences and so on. As a scientist what do you think of Dewey's understanding that science is the handmaiden of aesthetics [which means an intensifying experience of life] On page 16, Tom Leddy in the Stanford article Mike sent translates Dewey's understanding of being TRULY alive: "Rather than giving art primacy in aesthetic, Dewey believes that humans only feel properly alive when absorbing the aesthetic FEATURES of nature. Aesthetic experience of the natural environment can even take the FORM of *ecstatic communion*. This is due to ancient habits gained in the relations between the living being and its environment. Sensuous experience can absorb into itself meanings and values that are DESIGNATED 'ideal' or 'spiritual'. Dewey observes that belief that nature is full of spirits is closely tied to POETRY. The sensuous surfaces of things INCORPORATE not only what is given to the senses but the most profound INSIGHT. Many of the arts ORIGINATE in primitive rituals which were not simply intended as means to get rain, etc. but for the ENHANCEMENT OF THE EXPERIENCE. Similarly myth was not just an early form of science." [Leddy, p.16] Andy, as a scientist, are the practises of science intended to creatively and ideally participate in the reenchantment of the world?. Ivo introducing Gendlin, notions of vivencia, Merleau Ponty's notion of *singing thw world* all are invitations addressing us to imagine the rhythmical flow and pulsing of life reenchanted. Modernity may have been a *wrong turn* and we are in a *revolution* [not as turning away from history but as a returning to history] Ancient Greece often is returned to in philosophy. Why? Because the texts of that epoch were expressing the experience of intensified life. It was an aesthetic epoch. Just thinking out loud but hopeing to participate in further *minding* and *eventing* as "collaborative projects" of revolution and return. Larry
On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 9:26 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote: 

    The distinction is not quite the grammatical one, is it Carol?
    Meaning can be a noun and still be the name of an attribute of a
    symbol or artefact. "Attribute" is a noun. And it can still be a
    gerund, as a kind of noun, derived from the verb "to mean". So if
    "I meant to help you when I said that," "my meaning was to be
    helpful," with "meaning" here being the gerund referring to my
    speech act. I don't deny that  "meaning" has taken on a certain
    usage and is widely taken to be the attribute of a word or phrase
    and found in a dictionary, but I think as a scientist I prefer to
    see such things as objectifications of the primary source which is
    human speech/speaking. I think the same distinctions can be
    discovered in perezhivanija, experiences and so on.

    Andy

    mike cole wrote:

        Now how do we make sense of that, Carol?
        :-)
        mike

        On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 8:37 PM, <carolmacdon@gmail.com
        <mailto:carolmacdon@gmail.com> <mailto:carolmacdon@gmail.com
        <mailto:carolmacdon@gmail.com>>> wrote:

            No Andy, "meaning" is principally a noun of long standing,
            ossified. There are loads of examples of noun/verb pairs.
            Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
            Sender: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:39:57
            To: <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            Reply-To: ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>, "eXtended
            Mind, Culture,
                    Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>

            Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of
        experience

            Yes, the use of "Thought" in lieu of "Thinking" and
        "Language" instead
            of "Speaking" is famous and widely recognised, but I have
        found that
            while noting this, people often stick to "meaning" as the
            attribute of a
            symbol rather than the gerund of an action verb.

            Andy

            mike cole wrote:
            > Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and
            Language"
            > vs "Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
            > and Dilthey......
            >
            > Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
            > an interesting exercise!
            >
            > mike
            >
            > On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden
        <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
            > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
            >
            >     Oh I see!
            >     It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list
            fundamental
            >     human actions/relations which provide the foundation for
            language,
            >     along with travelling, handling objects, containers,
        and spatial
            >     position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as
            >     indicative of the nature of life in the land of the
        free. So in
            >     this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
            >     "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of
        the cooper's
            >     barrel in this context.
            >
            >     And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to
        turn a
            process
            >     verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my
        meaning, but the
            >     English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse
            direction
            >     in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like
            "impact")
            >     being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of
        the culture in
            >     which James and Dewey were philosophising.
            >
            >     Andy
            >
            >     mike cole wrote:
            >
            >         A barrel, as used in this context, usually
        refers to a
            wooden or
            >         metal tube/container that is "solid." It is
        unchanging over
            >         significant periods of a human life span.
            >
            >         Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are
            groping the
            >         environment with bodies, the environment is
        groping us. And
            >         given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its
        a process
            >         occurring over
            >
            >         time.
            >
            >         Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality
        on the brain,
            >         so to speak.
            >
            >         mike
            >
            >         On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden
            >         <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
            >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>> wrote:
            >
            >             I don't understand your allusion to
        temporality, Mike.
            >             Andy
            >
            >             mike cole wrote:
            >
            >                 Those are both terrifically useful
        passages to
            think with,
            >                 Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak)
        really
            >         resonate to the
            >                 notion of rhythmicity and movement in
        the first
            >         passage, and
            >                 the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I
            think for the
            >                 latter that
            >                 barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far
        as "two-way"
            >         /temporality/
            >                 is backgrounded.
            >
            >                 thanks!
            >                 mike
            >
            >
            >                 On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy
        Blunden
            >                 <ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
            >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>
            >                 <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
            >         <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
            <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
        <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>>> wrote:
            >
            >                     What about this one Larry?
            >
            >                            ‘Experience’ is what James
        called a
            >         double-barreled
            >                 word. Like
            >                            its congeners, life and
        history, it
            >         includes /what/
            >                 men do and
            >                            suffer, /what/ they strive
        for, love,
            >         believe and
            >                 endure, and
            >                            /how/ men act and are acted
        upon, the
            ways
            >         in which
            >                 they do and
            >                            suffer, desire and enjoy,
        see, believe,
            >         imagine –
            >                 in short,
            >                            processes of /experiencing/.
        ... It is
            >                 ‘double-barreled’ in
            >                     that
            >                            it recognizes in its primary
        integrity no
            >         division
            >                 between act
            >                            and material, subject and
        object, but
            >         contains them
            >                 both in an
            >                            unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and
            ‘thought’, as
            >                 James says
            >                     in the
            >                            same connection, are
        single-barreled;
            they
            >         refer to
            >                 products
            >                            discriminated by reflection
        out of
            primary
            >                 experience (1929
            >                     PJD:
            >                            256-7).
            >
            >                     Andy
            >
            >
            >                     Larry Purss wrote:
            >
            >                         Mike,
            >
            >                         On page 12 of the  article on
        Dewey's
            >         notionotion of
            >                         experience the theme
            >                         of experience AS
            >                         "life overcomes and transforms
        factors of
            >         opposition to
            >                         achieve higher
            >                         significance. Harmony and
        equilibrium
            are the
            >         resullts
            >                 not of
            >                         mechanical
            >                         processes but of RHYTHMIC
        resolution of
            >         tension.  The
            >                 rhythmic
            >                         ALTERNATION
            >                         within the live creature BETWEEN
        unity and
            >         disunity
            >                 becomes
            >                         CONSCIOUS in
            >                         humans.  Emotion signifies BREAKS in
            >         experience which
            >                 are then
            >                         resolved
            >                         through reflective action"
            >
            >                         I thought this may be a way in to
            *start* the
            >                 conversational
            >                         dialogue  with
            >                         perezhivanie.
            >
            >                         Larry
            >
            >                         On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM,
        Larry Purss
            >                         <lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
            >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>>>
            >
            >                 wrote:
            >
            >                                              Michael, Mike:
            >                             One more fragment on the
         definition of
            >         sentipensante:
            >
            >                             Sentipensante pedagogy offers a
            transformative
            >                 vision of
            >                             education that
            >                             emphasizes the harmonic,
        complementary
            >         relationship
            >                             between the sentir of
            >                             intuition and the pensar of
            intellect and
            >         scholarship;
            >                             between teaching and
            >                             learning; between formal
        knowledge and
            >         wisdom; and
            >                 between
            >                             Western and
            >                             non-Western ways of knowing.
            >
            >                             Seems to have some family
        resemblance to
            >         this theme of
            >                             experience
            >                             Larry
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >                             On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM,
            Larry Purss
            >                             <lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>
            >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>

            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:
            >
            >                                                        Mike,
            >                                 Thanks for this.
            >                                 Stanford Pub is a wonderful
            resource.
            >          I seem to
            >                                 download an author
            >                                 approximately once a
        month. For
            $10 you
            >                 support them
            >                                 and get the articles
            >                                 sent in a PDF format.
            >
            >                                 Michael , here is a link [in
            Spanish]
            >         to a youtube
            >                                 video of Orlando
            >                                 Fals-Borda discussing his
            understanding of
            >                 experience
            >                                 from the heart.
            >                                 If you have any articles
        in English
            >         which you can
            >                                 share, this seems to be
            >                                 exploring experience
        within "felt
            >         awareness".
            >                                 Seems to be a fascinating
            expansion of the
            >                                 understanding of experience.
            >
            >                                 Thanks, Michael and Mike
            >
            >                                 Larry
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo 
            >
            >                                 On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
        3:46 PM,
            mike cole
            >                                 <lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>>> wrote:
            >
            >
            >          Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
            >                 a quick
            >                                     summary of Dewey on
            >                                     experience. Note
        that his ideas
            >         are considered
            >                                     unusual by the author.
            >                                     That
            >                                     Stanford pub seems
        very useful.
            >                                     mike
            >
            >
> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp 
            >
            >                                     On Mon, Feb 18, 2013
        at 3:08 PM,
            >         Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> 
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>
            >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>

            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
        <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>>>
            >
            >                                     wrote:
            >
            >
            >              Michael,
            >                                         I also found
        this site
            for Orlando
            >                 Fals Borda.
            >
            >         http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
            >                                         If it is off topic
            please ignore.
            >                 However, it
            >                                         is where my
        curiosity was
            >                                         called or invited.
            >
            >                                         Larry
            >
            >                                         On Mon, Feb 18,
        2013 at
            11:40 AM,
            >                 Glassman,
            >                                         Michael <
            >
            >                glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
            <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
            <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
            >         <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
            <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>

            <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
            >         <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
            <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>
        <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
            <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>>>
            >
            >
            >                  wrote:
> Perhaps 
            >         another avenue to
            >                                             explore might be
            Ortega y
            >         Gasset's
            >                 ideas on
            >                                             experience
        (which is
            >         probably in
            >                 some ways
            >                                             reflective
        of Dewey)
            >
            >                      which was
            >
            >                  appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
            >                 in the
            >                                             concept of
        vivencia -
            >
            >                      which is
            >
            >                  very compelling - and became an
            >                 important
            >                                             part of
        Fals-Borda's
            >
            >                      conception
            >
            >                  of Participatory Action Research.
            >                  This
            >                                             might then
        tie back
            to the
            >
            >                          earlier
            >
            >                        issue on PAR.
            >
            >                                             Michael
            >
            >          ________________________________________
            >                                             From:
            >         xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >
            >          <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>
            >
            >         [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >
            >          <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>] on
            >
            >
            >                          behalf
            >
            >                        of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> 
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>>]
            >
            >                                             Sent: Monday,
            February 18,
            >         2013
            >                 2:28 PM
            >                                             To: Beth Ferholt
            >                                             Cc: Galina
            Zuckerman; John
            >                 Shotter; Boris
> Meshcheryakov; eXtended 
            >
            >                      Mind,
            >
            >                  Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
            >                                             Alexander
        Asmolov
            >                                             Subject: Re:
        [xmca]
            >         Perezhivanie and
            >                                             Dewey's
        concept of
            experience
            >
            >                                             Thanks Beth--
            >
            >                                             I ask, firstly,
            because there
            >                 appear quite
            >                                             clear
        overlaps as
            you and
            >
            >                          Monica
            >
            >                        have been exploring.
            >
            >                                             Secondly, we
        have two
            >         submissions
            >                 to MCA
            >                                             on
        perezhivanie that are
            >
            >                      very
            >
            >                  focused on Russian authors. Over
            >                 and above
            >                                             competing
            >                                             exegeses of
        the ideas of
            >         Vygotsky,
            >                                             Puyzerei,
        etc., it seems
            >         important
            >
            >                          that
            >
            >                        we figure out ways to explore
            >                 different
            >                                             ways of thinking
            about the
            >
            >                          general
            >
            >                        category of "experience" that will be
            >                                             productive
        of new
            >         empirical and
            >                                             theoretical
            investigation.
            >
            >                                             mike
            >
            >                                             On Mon, Feb
        18, 2013 at
            >         9:42 AM, Beth
            >                                             Ferholt
            >         <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
            <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>
            >                 <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
            <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
            <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>>
> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com> 
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
            >         <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
            <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
        <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
            <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>>>>
            >
            >
            >                          wrote:
            >
            >                            Monica and I have just started
            >                 using
            >                                                 the two
        concepts in
            >
            >                            conjunction,
            >
            >              as
            >
            >                            we write about the relation
            >                 between
            >                                                 play and
            learning and
            >         Dewey's
            >
            >                            ideas
            >
            >                  on
            >
            >                                  the relation between
        art and
            >                 science
            >                                                 in Art and
            Experience.
            >          I am
            >
            >                            very
            >
            >                      interested in any ref. you
            >                 find as I
            >                                                 have
        found none
            yet. Can I
            >
            >                            ask why
            >
            >                  you
            >
            >                                  ask now? Beth
            >
            >
            >                                                 On Mon,
        Feb 18, 2013
            >         at 6:09
            >                 PM, mike
            >                                                 cole
            >         <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>
            >
            >         <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
        <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
            <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>>>
            >
            >
            >                            wrote:
            >
            >                          Has anyone written on uses
            >                 of the
            >                                                     term
            perezhivanie
            >         as used
            >                 in the
            >                                                     cultural
> historical 
            >         tradition and
            >                 Dewey's
> concept of 
            experience?
            >
            >                                  references?
            >
            >                          mike
            >
            >          __________________________________________
            >                                                     _____
            >                                                     xmca
        mailing
            list
            >
            >         xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >
            >          <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>
            >
            >
            >
            >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >
            >                                                 --
            >                                                 Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor 
            >                                                 School
        of Education
            >                                                 Brooklyn
            College, City
            >                 University of
            >                                                 New York
            >                                                 2900
        Bedford Avenue
            >                                                 Brooklyn, NY
            11210-2889
            >
            >                                                 Email:
            >                 bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
            >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
            >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
            >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>>
            >
            >          <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
            >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
            >         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
            <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
        <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>>>
            >
            >                                                 Phone: (718)
            951-5205
            >                                                 Fax:
        (718) 951-4816 <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
            >
            >
            >
            >         __________________________________________
            >                                             _____
            >                                             xmca mailing
        list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> 
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>
            >
            >
            >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >
            >
            >          __________________________________________
            >                                             _____
            >                                             xmca mailing
        list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> 
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>
            >
            >
            >          http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >
> __________________________________________ 
            >                                         _____
            >                                         xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> 
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>
            >
            >
            >         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >
            >                __________________________________________
            >                                     _____
            >                                     xmca mailing list
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            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>

            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>
            >
            >
            >         http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >
> __________________________________________ 
            >                         _____
            >                         xmca mailing list
            >                         xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>

            >
            >
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca 
            >
            >
            >
            >                     --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
            >                     *Andy Blunden*
            >                     Home Page:
        http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >                 <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >
            >
            >                     Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
            >                     http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
            >
            >
> __________________________________________ 
            >                     _____
            >                     xmca mailing list
            >                     xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >                 <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>>

            >
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca 
            >
            >
            >
            >             --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
            >             *Andy Blunden*
            >             Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
        <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >         <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >             Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
            >             http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
            >
            >             __________________________________________
            >             _____
            >             xmca mailing list
            >             xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >         <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>>
            >             http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >
            >
            >     --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
            >     *Andy Blunden*
            >     Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
        <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
        <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            >     Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
            >     http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
            >
            >     __________________________________________
            >     _____
            >     xmca mailing list
            >     xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
            >     http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
            >
            >

            --
------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
            *Andy Blunden*
            Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
        <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
            Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
            http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden

            __________________________________________
            _____
            xmca mailing list
            xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca

            __________________________________________
            _____
            xmca mailing list
            xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
        <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>>
            http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
    *Andy Blunden*
    Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
    Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
    http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden

    __________________________________________
    _____
    xmca mailing list
    xmca@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
    http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca




--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden

__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca