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Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
- To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
- Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
- From: carolmacdon@gmail.com
- Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 04:37:47 +0000
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No Andy, "meaning" is principally a noun of long standing, ossified. There are loads of examples of noun/verb pairs.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
Sender: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2013 13:39:57
To: <lchcmike@gmail.com>
Reply-To: ablunden@mira.net, "eXtended Mind, Culture,
Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity<xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Perezhivanie and Dewey's concept of experience
Yes, the use of "Thought" in lieu of "Thinking" and "Language" instead
of "Speaking" is famous and widely recognised, but I have found that
while noting this, people often stick to "meaning" as the attribute of a
symbol rather than the gerund of an action verb.
Andy
mike cole wrote:
> Not that the same "verbifying" can be found in "Thought and Language"
> vs "Thinking and Speech." Kind of like Ivo's Dewey
> and Dilthey......
>
> Makes international discussion about perezhivanie/experience
> an interesting exercise!
>
> mike
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> Oh I see!
> It has always amused me how George Lakoff in his list fundamental
> human actions/relations which provide the foundation for language,
> along with travelling, handling objects, containers, and spatial
> position, he includes guns and war. I have taken this as
> indicative of the nature of life in the land of the free. So in
> this case I took "double-barrelled" to mean as in
> "double-barrelled shot gun"! I had never thought of the cooper's
> barrel in this context.
>
> And yes, the facility of English with its "ing" to turn a process
> verb into a noun can be annoying, if you get my meaning, but the
> English language is undergoing a movement in the reverse direction
> in recent decades, with more and more action-nouns (like "impact")
> being used as verbs. This seems to be a legacy of the culture in
> which James and Dewey were philosophising.
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>
> A barrel, as used in this context, usually refers to a wooden or
> metal tube/container that is "solid." It is unchanging over
> significant periods of a human life span.
>
> Zaporozhets reminds us, somewhere, that as we are groping the
> environment with bodies, the environment is groping us. And
> given the "ing" in groping, its not a noun, its a process
> occurring over
>
> time.
>
> Perhaps that is not useful. I have temporality on the brain,
> so to speak.
>
> mike
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 4:02 PM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>
> I don't understand your allusion to temporality, Mike.
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>
> Those are both terrifically useful passages to think with,
> Larry and Andy. Thanks. I (so to speak) really
> resonate to the
> notion of rhythmicity and movement in the first
> passage, and
> the "doublebarrel" metaphor in the second. I think for the
> latter that
> barrel is perhaps unfortunate in so far as "two-way"
> /temporality/
> is backgrounded.
>
> thanks!
> mike
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 19, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
>
> What about this one Larry?
>
> ‘Experience’ is what James called a
> double-barreled
> word. Like
> its congeners, life and history, it
> includes /what/
> men do and
> suffer, /what/ they strive for, love,
> believe and
> endure, and
> /how/ men act and are acted upon, the ways
> in which
> they do and
> suffer, desire and enjoy, see, believe,
> imagine –
> in short,
> processes of /experiencing/. ... It is
> ‘double-barreled’ in
> that
> it recognizes in its primary integrity no
> division
> between act
> and material, subject and object, but
> contains them
> both in an
> unanalyzed totality. ‘Thing’ and ‘thought’, as
> James says
> in the
> same connection, are single-barreled; they
> refer to
> products
> discriminated by reflection out of primary
> experience (1929
> PJD:
> 256-7).
>
> Andy
>
>
> Larry Purss wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> On page 12 of the article on Dewey's
> notionotion of
> experience the theme
> of experience AS
> "life overcomes and transforms factors of
> opposition to
> achieve higher
> significance. Harmony and equilibrium are the
> resullts
> not of
> mechanical
> processes but of RHYTHMIC resolution of
> tension. The
> rhythmic
> ALTERNATION
> within the live creature BETWEEN unity and
> disunity
> becomes
> CONSCIOUS in
> humans. Emotion signifies BREAKS in
> experience which
> are then
> resolved
> through reflective action"
>
> I thought this may be a way in to *start* the
> conversational
> dialogue with
> perezhivanie.
>
> Larry
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:55 PM, Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
>
> wrote:
>
> Michael, Mike:
> One more fragment on the definition of
> sentipensante:
>
> Sentipensante pedagogy offers a transformative
> vision of
> education that
> emphasizes the harmonic, complementary
> relationship
> between the sentir of
> intuition and the pensar of intellect and
> scholarship;
> between teaching and
> learning; between formal knowledge and
> wisdom; and
> between
> Western and
> non-Western ways of knowing.
>
> Seems to have some family resemblance to
> this theme of
> experience
> Larry
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 5:37 PM, Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>
> Mike,
> Thanks for this.
> Stanford Pub is a wonderful resource.
> I seem to
> download an author
> approximately once a month. For $10 you
> support them
> and get the articles
> sent in a PDF format.
>
> Michael , here is a link [in Spanish]
> to a youtube
> video of Orlando
> Fals-Borda discussing his understanding of
> experience
> from the heart.
> If you have any articles in English
> which you can
> share, this seems to be
> exploring experience within "felt
> awareness".
> Seems to be a fascinating expansion of the
> understanding of experience.
>
> Thanks, Michael and Mike
>
> Larry
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbJWqetRuMo
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:46 PM, mike cole
> <lchcmike@gmail.com
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Larry. Viva la differencia. Here is
> a quick
> summary of Dewey on
> experience. Note that his ideas
> are considered
> unusual by the author.
> That
> Stanford pub seems very useful.
> mike
>
>
> http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/dewey-aesthetics/#HavExp
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 3:08 PM,
> Larry Purss
> <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com
> <mailto:lpscholar2@gmail.com>>>>
>
> wrote:
>
>
> Michael,
> I also found this site for Orlando
> Fals Borda.
>
> http://comm-org.wisc.edu/si/falsborda.htm
> If it is off topic please ignore.
> However, it
> is where my curiosity was
> called or invited.
>
> Larry
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 11:40 AM,
> Glassman,
> Michael <
>
> glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu
> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>
>
> <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu <mailto:glassman.13@osu.edu>>>
>
>
> wrote:
> Perhaps
> another avenue to
> explore might be Ortega y
> Gasset's
> ideas on
> experience (which is
> probably in
> some ways
> reflective of Dewey)
>
> which was
>
> appropriated by Orlando Fals Borda
> in the
> concept of vivencia -
>
> which is
>
> very compelling - and became an
> important
> part of Fals-Borda's
>
> conception
>
> of Participatory Action Research.
> This
> might then tie back to the
>
> earlier
>
> issue on PAR.
>
> Michael
>
> ________________________________________
> From:
> xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>
>
> [xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>
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>
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>>>] on
>
>
> behalf
>
> of mike cole [lchcmike@gmail.com
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>]
>
> Sent: Monday, February 18,
> 2013
> 2:28 PM
> To: Beth Ferholt
> Cc: Galina Zuckerman; John
> Shotter; Boris
> Meshcheryakov; eXtended
>
> Mind,
>
> Culture, Activity; James Wertsch;
> Alexander Asmolov
> Subject: Re: [xmca]
> Perezhivanie and
> Dewey's concept of experience
>
> Thanks Beth--
>
> I ask, firstly, because there
> appear quite
> clear overlaps as you and
>
> Monica
>
> have been exploring.
>
> Secondly, we have two
> submissions
> to MCA
> on perezhivanie that are
>
> very
>
> focused on Russian authors. Over
> and above
> competing
> exegeses of the ideas of
> Vygotsky,
> Puyzerei, etc., it seems
> important
>
> that
>
> we figure out ways to explore
> different
> ways of thinking about the
>
> general
>
> category of "experience" that will be
> productive of new
> empirical and
> theoretical investigation.
>
> mike
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at
> 9:42 AM, Beth
> Ferholt
> <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com
> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>>>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> Monica and I have just started
> using
> the two concepts in
>
> conjunction,
>
> as
>
> we write about the relation
> between
> play and learning and
> Dewey's
>
> ideas
>
> on
>
> the relation between art and
> science
> in Art and Experience.
> I am
>
> very
>
> interested in any ref. you
> find as I
> have found none yet. Can I
>
> ask why
>
> you
>
> ask now? Beth
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013
> at 6:09
> PM, mike
> cole
> <lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>
>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>
>
> <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com <mailto:lchcmike@gmail.com>>>>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> Has anyone written on uses
> of the
> term perezhivanie
> as used
> in the
> cultural
> historical
> tradition and
> Dewey's
> concept of experience?
>
> references?
>
> mike
>
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>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor
> School of Education
> Brooklyn College, City
> University of
> New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email:
> bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
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>
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> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
>
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>
>
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> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
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> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
>
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--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden
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