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Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
Robert,
Yes, thanks for the additional article by Good.
And with regard to the trifling over genealogy, I would further propose the
following syllogism: the intellectual history of a scholar is to
understanding that scholars' work as context is to meaning.
Just as meaning cannot exist outside of its context, it seems only sensible
to try and understand them in their context and on their terms (rather than
our terms) - or at least as best we can. Failing to do so can lead to
theoretical imperialism - taking our own ideas of the here and now and
pushing them onto ideas that (always!) came from a then and there (cf.
Marx's Grundrisse and German Ideology).
(and note that this problem is kin to the problem of analysts of social
behavior who try to make sense of some past happening and who make
precisely the same move of identifying a meaningfulness in a here and now
without full recourse to the contextual then and there of the moment in
which the behavior happened).
But, to be sure, I'm a lame intellectual historian, so I can't carry much
water for this cause. But I am a believer and happy to help foster
continuities and linkages across time.
-greg
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>wrote:
> Thanks for your comments Greg,
> Some people might trifle over the value of intellectual genealogy
> but I think it is critically important to promote inter-generationality
> in scholarship by accurately connecting the past to our own present and
> future
> work as well as our students.
> You might find the attached article useful and perhaps inspiring in this
> regard.
> *Robert*
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> >wrote:
>
> > Mike,
> >
> > I was thinking the same thing and went back to check the date of the
> Reflex
> > Arc since I thought it was a later piece and not in Dewey's "Hegel years"
> > (as described by these authors), and thus evidence of Hegelian influence
> > showing through in Dewey's later years. But it turns out it was published
> > in 1896. That would put it squarely in the early part of Dewey's Hegel
> > years (or at least in the early part of his transition). But there is
> still
> > plenty else in Dewey's later work that suggests Hegelian (and Marxian)
> > influences.
> >
> > Many thanks to Robert for making these connections.
> >
> > And Robert, I agree, dialectical thinking sounds like Vygotsky too!
> >
> > -greg
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 2:26 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Very interesting, Robert. Thanks. Seems like the following paragraph
> > should
> > > be linked directly to Dewey's paper on the reflex arc in addition to
> > > pointing to the antiquity of the on-again, off-again discussion of
> > > cognition and emotion on xmca:
> > >
> > > *Therefore, Hegel argues that, to use Good’s incisive *
> > > *expression, “cause and effect are more fruitfully seen as reciprocal
> > > moments within an organic process rather than linear relations” (75).
> > Dewey
> > > enthusiastically endorses the Hegelian theory of causation, and puts it
> > at
> > > the basis of his own conception of reality, life, and *
> > > *reason. So, for instance, Dewey writes: “each member of the animal
> body
> > is
> > > cause and effect of every other: each organ is at once means and ends
> of
> > > every other” (115). Moreover, the organicist theory of causation is
> also
> > > the key to understanding Dewey’s theory of emotion and his concomitant
> > > critique of mind/body dualism*.
> > >
> > > mike
> > >
> > > On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Robert Lake <
> > boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > You seem to be an inveterate lurker, Robert. It would be good to
> hear
> > > > your
> > > > > voice somewhat more frequently in the discussions on xmca.
> > > > >
> > > > > Andy
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi Andy,
> > > > I will try to honor your requests. I am presently finishing 3 book
> > > projects
> > > > for which I been a co-editor and contributor and teaching a full load
> > > :-).
> > > >
> > > > Btw, speaking of connections between Dewey and Hegel, has anyone
> had a
> > > > look at the book that is reviewed here in this link?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://lnx.journalofpragmatism.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/shook-good-deweys-philosophy-of-spirit.pdf
> > > >
> > > > Robert Lake
> > > >
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Robert Lake wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi and thanks for asking
> > > > >> RL
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For Dewey, *Mind is primarily a verb *(Dewey, 1934, p. 274).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Dewey, J. (1934). *Art as experience*. New York: Capricorn.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Of course this notion comes straight out of Hegel who wrote that
> > > "mind
> > > > is
> > > > >> only what it does, and its act is to make itself the object of its
> > > > >> own consciousness" .*Philosophy of Right*,
> > > > >> §<http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**
> > > > >> pr/prstate.htm#PR343<
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/pr/prstate.htm#PR343
> > > > >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> 343, 216.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:36 PM, vwilk <vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> If the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human (intellectual)
> > life
> > > > >>> relevant to concepts.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> For all the stars of present-day continental philosophy is:
> > > > >>> pidgeon-holing.
> > > > >>> and the concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity
> Theory,
> > > > Thomas
> > > > >>> Kuhn
> > > > >>> and Andy is: problem-solving.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> What is the concrete path of development that goes through Dewey?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> (2012/11/14 10:05), Robert Lake wrote:
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> And don't forget Dewey :-)
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Andy Blunden <
> ablunden@mira.net>
> > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> Larry, picking up on a theme introduced by Mike earlier - we
> have
> > > to
> > > > >>>> ask:
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>> what is the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human
> > > (intellectual)
> > > > >>>>> life?
> > > > >>>>> I know of only two answers to this question, relevant to
> > concepts.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> The abstract answer given by mediavel logic, Linnaeus, the
> > > > "psychology
> > > > >>>>> of
> > > > >>>>> concepts," all the stars of present-day continental philosophy
> > is:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> pidgeon-holing.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity Theory,
> > > Thomas
> > > > >>>>> Kuhn
> > > > >>>>> and me is:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> problem-solving.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> This is what creates a line of development, Larry.
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Andy
> > > > >>>>> --
> > > > >>>>>
> ------------------------------******--------------------------**
> > > > >>>>> --**--**
> > > > >>>>> ------------
> > > > >>>>> *Andy Blunden*
> > > > >>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > > > >>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > > > >>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/******AndyBlunden<
> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/****AndyBlunden>
> > > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden>
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > > > http://academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/AndyBlunden<
> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Larry Purss wrote:
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>> Andy
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> your comment:
> > > > >>>>>> "Ideal typical path of development" *points to* distinct
> > settings
> > > > >>>>>> (e.g.
> > > > >>>>>> natural science, everyday life at home, school, etc.) which is
> > > > indeed
> > > > >>>>>> close
> > > > >>>>>> to the idea of "genre," but "ideal typical path of
> development"
> > is
> > > > >>>>>> after
> > > > >>>>>> all about *paths of development*, ideal ones at that, not
> > > settings,
> > > > >>>>>> projects, theories, domains, social groups, frames, or
> anything
> > > > else.
> > > > >>>>>> :)
> > > > >>>>>> Andy, if the focus remains on *typical paths of development*
> > OF
> > > > >>>>>> genres,
> > > > >>>>>> OF distinct settings OF the existential life world, is it
> > possible
> > > > to
> > > > >>>>>> have
> > > > >>>>>> a conversation within the multi-verse of *romantic science*
> > > > >>>>>> As I understand the focus on *typical* is *scientific* the
> > paths
> > > of
> > > > >>>>>> development may be romantic and implicate effective history.
> > > > >>>>>> I am circling around your invitation to have conversations
> > that
> > > > are
> > > > >>>>>> interdiciplinary. Simon Critchley, exploring the development
> of
> > > > >>>>>> Continental
> > > > >>>>>> Philosophy wrote about Heidegger's idea of
> > > > >>>>>> *an existential CONCEPTION of science* Critchley
> commented,
> > > > >>>>>> "This would show how the practices of the natural sciences
> > arise
> > > > out
> > > > >>>>>> of
> > > > >>>>>> life-world practices, and that the life-world practices are
> not
> > > > simply
> > > > >>>>>> reducible to natural scientific explanation"
> > > > >>>>>> Andy, your specific project to develop awareness of the
> > *typical
> > > > >>>>>> paths*
> > > > >>>>>> of develop of concept use and transformation through time is
> > > > emerging
> > > > >>>>>> within a particular tradition or genre of discourse [within
> > > > effective
> > > > >>>>>> history]. I am playfully inquiring if it may be possible to
> > > *play*
> > > > >>>>>> [a
> > > > >>>>>> word you would not use but points to a hermeneutical genre]
> on a
> > > > >>>>>> larger
> > > > >>>>>> *field of play* that *hears* and acknowledges your voice.
> > > > >>>>>> I will bring the discussion back to the paper under
> discussion
> > > and
> > > > >>>>>> the
> > > > >>>>>> fuzzy boundaries between spontaneous and scientific
> > > [systematically
> > > > >>>>>> 'true'
> > > > >>>>>> organized] concepts. Andy the path of development FROM
> > > spontaneous
> > > > TO
> > > > >>>>>> scientific concepts seems to have deen articulated within a
> > genre.
> > > > >>>>>> However,
> > > > >>>>>> this is not a dis-interested scientific development. Mike
> > pointed
> > > to
> > > > >>>>>> developmental praxis as centrally concerning *social goods,
> > > > including
> > > > >>>>>> moral
> > > > >>>>>> goods*.
> > > > >>>>>> Within our developing understanding of ideal paths of
> concept
> > > > >>>>>> formation
> > > > >>>>>> how is this emerging understanding circling back to exploring
> > how
> > > > our
> > > > >>>>>> *hearing* gives *voice* to the other*?
> > > > >>>>>> {Which I suggest is one way to view the development of
> > psychology
> > > > as a
> > > > >>>>>> project within a shared moral compass}
> > > > >>>>>> Larry
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>> ______________________________******____________
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>>>
> > > > >>>>> _____
> > > > >>>>> xmca mailing list
> > > > >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/******listinfo/xmca<
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca>
> > > > >>>>> <http://dss.**ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/**xmca<
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/**mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://**
> > > > >>>>> dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/**xmca<
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>> ______________________________****____________
> > > > >>> _____
> > > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
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> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > > >>> >
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > > > > ------------
> > > > > *Andy Blunden*
> > > > > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > > > > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> > > > *Associate Professor
> > > > Social Foundations of Education
> > > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> > > > Georgia Southern University
> > > > P. O. Box 8144
> > > > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> > > > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> > > > Statesboro, GA 30460
> > > >
> > > > *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is
> its
> > > > midwife.*
> > > > *-*John Dewey.
> > > > __________________________________________
> > > > _____
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > Visiting Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > Brigham Young University
> > Provo, UT 84602
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> *Associate Professor
> Social Foundations of Education
> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> Georgia Southern University
> P. O. Box 8144
> Phone: (912) 478-0355
> Fax: (912) 478-5382
> Statesboro, GA 30460
>
> *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> midwife.*
> *-*John Dewey.
>
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
>
--
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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