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Re: [xmca] Re: A Failure of Communication
Christine,
Apologies for my ignorance, but could you clarify the connection that you
implied between "bildung" and British Empiricism? (it is suggested by the
last sentence of your email).
Thanks,
greg
On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 2:06 PM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>wrote:
> I am glad you find the article useful Christine.
> I will look more closely at the bildung section myself.
> RL
>
> On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 12:46 PM, Christine Schweighart <
> schweighartc@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> > Thanks for the pointer to the Reflex Arc writing - the organic
> > argument there is couched in it's scientific times. Biology now has
> > has notions of 'structural -coupling', based on nervous system study.
> > Though what draws attention in existing states through regulation of
> > energy cycles, in relation to embodiment of ideal in material , hasn't
> > been as clearly worked through. Intricacies of patterns in flux of
> > enzymes and such (as 'organ' in cause effect with nervous system
> > activity). Research in regulatory enzyme function seems to suffer from
> > a fragmentation of science practices of Biological Science and from
> > dis-jointed relation of these practices to Philosophy - as well as
> > funding weighting. Solving problems of the moment such as obesity and
> > heart disease rather than say 'mental health' or a good life, often
> > taking as primary neuronal networks more or less alone as complexities
> > of enzyme pathways are not yet understood.
> >
> > I found thisessay in my j.j. McDermott's two Volumes in one - which I
> > hadn't yet approached...in the 'early works'.
> > yet the book critique mentioned:
> >
> > "Dewey’s notion of pure personality stands out as the single
> > theoretical device that warrants the validity of the process of
> > ideali-zation of sensations or, in other words, the process of
> > embodiment of the ideal in material. If this reading is correct, an
> > even stronger continuity in Dewey’s philosophical development can be
> > detected."
> >
> > And I'm afraid I couldn't read it any further as my ready to hand
> > book today doesn't have a nice index with 'pure personality' pxx ,
> > though I hope that I might find my way towards considering this .
> > Thank you for this article, it is of interest to me especially from
> > the mapping of 'bildung' p300 and onwards - as I am thinking about
> > the nature of the influence of British Empircism in other reading I'm
> > in the midst of.
> > Christine.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 4:13 PM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
> >
> > wrote:
> > > Thanks for your comments Greg,
> > > Some people might trifle over the value of intellectual genealogy
> > > but I think it is critically important to promote inter-generationality
> > > in scholarship by accurately connecting the past to our own present
> and
> > > future
> > > work as well as our students.
> > > You might find the attached article useful and perhaps inspiring in
> this
> > > regard.
> > > *Robert*
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 3, 2012 at 10:40 AM, Greg Thompson <
> > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:
> > >
> > >> Mike,
> > >>
> > >> I was thinking the same thing and went back to check the date of the
> > Reflex
> > >> Arc since I thought it was a later piece and not in Dewey's "Hegel
> > years"
> > >> (as described by these authors), and thus evidence of Hegelian
> influence
> > >> showing through in Dewey's later years. But it turns out it was
> > published
> > >> in 1896. That would put it squarely in the early part of Dewey's Hegel
> > >> years (or at least in the early part of his transition). But there is
> > still
> > >> plenty else in Dewey's later work that suggests Hegelian (and Marxian)
> > >> influences.
> > >>
> > >> Many thanks to Robert for making these connections.
> > >>
> > >> And Robert, I agree, dialectical thinking sounds like Vygotsky too!
> > >>
> > >> -greg
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 2:26 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Very interesting, Robert. Thanks. Seems like the following paragraph
> > >> should
> > >> > be linked directly to Dewey's paper on the reflex arc in addition to
> > >> > pointing to the antiquity of the on-again, off-again discussion of
> > >> > cognition and emotion on xmca:
> > >> >
> > >> > *Therefore, Hegel argues that, to use Good’s incisive *
> > >> > *expression, “cause and effect are more fruitfully seen as
> reciprocal
> > >> > moments within an organic process rather than linear relations”
> (75).
> > >> Dewey
> > >> > enthusiastically endorses the Hegelian theory of causation, and puts
> > it
> > >> at
> > >> > the basis of his own conception of reality, life, and *
> > >> > *reason. So, for instance, Dewey writes: “each member of the animal
> > body
> > >> is
> > >> > cause and effect of every other: each organ is at once means and
> ends
> > of
> > >> > every other” (115). Moreover, the organicist theory of causation is
> > also
> > >> > the key to understanding Dewey’s theory of emotion and his
> concomitant
> > >> > critique of mind/body dualism*.
> > >> >
> > >> > mike
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 11:40 AM, Robert Lake <
> > >> boblake@georgiasouthern.edu
> > >> > >wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 1:27 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > You seem to be an inveterate lurker, Robert. It would be good to
> > hear
> > >> > > your
> > >> > > > voice somewhat more frequently in the discussions on xmca.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Andy
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Hi Andy,
> > >> > > I will try to honor your requests. I am presently finishing 3 book
> > >> > projects
> > >> > > for which I been a co-editor and contributor and teaching a full
> > load
> > >> > :-).
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Btw, speaking of connections between Dewey and Hegel, has anyone
> > had a
> > >> > > look at the book that is reviewed here in this link?
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://lnx.journalofpragmatism.eu/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/shook-good-deweys-philosophy-of-spirit.pdf
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Robert Lake
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Robert
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > > Robert Lake wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> Hi and thanks for asking
> > >> > > >> RL
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> For Dewey, *Mind is primarily a verb *(Dewey, 1934, p. 274).
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Dewey, J. (1934). *Art as experience*. New York: Capricorn.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Of course this notion comes straight out of Hegel who wrote
> that
> > >> > "mind
> > >> > > is
> > >> > > >> only what it does, and its act is to make itself the object of
> > its
> > >> > > >> own consciousness" .*Philosophy of Right*,
> > >> > > >> §<http://www.marxists.org/**reference/archive/hegel/works/**
> > >> > > >> pr/prstate.htm#PR343<
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >>
> >
> http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/pr/prstate.htm#PR343
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> >
> > >> > > >> 343, 216.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 10:36 PM, vwilk <
> > vwilk@inf.shizuoka.ac.jp>
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>> If the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human
> (intellectual)
> > >> life
> > >> > > >>> relevant to concepts.
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> For all the stars of present-day continental philosophy is:
> > >> > > >>> pidgeon-holing.
> > >> > > >>> and the concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity
> > Theory,
> > >> > > Thomas
> > >> > > >>> Kuhn
> > >> > > >>> and Andy is: problem-solving.
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> What is the concrete path of development that goes through
> > Dewey?
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> (2012/11/14 10:05), Robert Lake wrote:
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>> And don't forget Dewey :-)
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 6:57 PM, Andy Blunden <
> > ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> > > >>>> wrote:
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Larry, picking up on a theme introduced by Mike earlier - we
> > have
> > >> > to
> > >> > > >>>> ask:
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> what is the Ur-Act, the basic, elementary act of human
> > >> > (intellectual)
> > >> > > >>>>> life?
> > >> > > >>>>> I know of only two answers to this question, relevant to
> > >> concepts.
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> The abstract answer given by mediavel logic, Linnaeus, the
> > >> > > "psychology
> > >> > > >>>>> of
> > >> > > >>>>> concepts," all the stars of present-day continental
> philosophy
> > >> is:
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> pidgeon-holing.
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> The concrete answer given by Hegel, Vygotsky, Activity
> Theory,
> > >> > Thomas
> > >> > > >>>>> Kuhn
> > >> > > >>>>> and me is:
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> problem-solving.
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> This is what creates a line of development, Larry.
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> Andy
> > >> > > >>>>> --
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > ------------------------------******--------------------------**
> > >> > > >>>>> --**--**
> > >> > > >>>>> ------------
> > >> > > >>>>> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> > > >>>>> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >> > > >>>>> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > >> > > >>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/******AndyBlunden<
> > >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/****AndyBlunden>
> > >> > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden>
> > >> > > >>>>> >
> > >> > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > >> > > http://academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > >> > > >>>>> <http://ucsd.**academia.edu/AndyBlunden<
> > >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > >> > > >>>>> >
> > >> > > >>>>> Larry Purss wrote:
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> Andy
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>>> your comment:
> > >> > > >>>>>> "Ideal typical path of development" *points to* distinct
> > >> settings
> > >> > > >>>>>> (e.g.
> > >> > > >>>>>> natural science, everyday life at home, school, etc.) which
> > is
> > >> > > indeed
> > >> > > >>>>>> close
> > >> > > >>>>>> to the idea of "genre," but "ideal typical path of
> > development"
> > >> is
> > >> > > >>>>>> after
> > >> > > >>>>>> all about *paths of development*, ideal ones at that, not
> > >> > settings,
> > >> > > >>>>>> projects, theories, domains, social groups, frames, or
> > anything
> > >> > > else.
> > >> > > >>>>>> :)
> > >> > > >>>>>> Andy, if the focus remains on *typical paths of
> > development*
> > >> OF
> > >> > > >>>>>> genres,
> > >> > > >>>>>> OF distinct settings OF the existential life world, is it
> > >> possible
> > >> > > to
> > >> > > >>>>>> have
> > >> > > >>>>>> a conversation within the multi-verse of *romantic science*
> > >> > > >>>>>> As I understand the focus on *typical* is *scientific* the
> > >> paths
> > >> > of
> > >> > > >>>>>> development may be romantic and implicate effective
> history.
> > >> > > >>>>>> I am circling around your invitation to have
> conversations
> > >> that
> > >> > > are
> > >> > > >>>>>> interdiciplinary. Simon Critchley, exploring the
> development
> > of
> > >> > > >>>>>> Continental
> > >> > > >>>>>> Philosophy wrote about Heidegger's idea of
> > >> > > >>>>>> *an existential CONCEPTION of science* Critchley
> > commented,
> > >> > > >>>>>> "This would show how the practices of the natural
> sciences
> > >> arise
> > >> > > out
> > >> > > >>>>>> of
> > >> > > >>>>>> life-world practices, and that the life-world practices are
> > not
> > >> > > simply
> > >> > > >>>>>> reducible to natural scientific explanation"
> > >> > > >>>>>> Andy, your specific project to develop awareness of the
> > >> *typical
> > >> > > >>>>>> paths*
> > >> > > >>>>>> of develop of concept use and transformation through time
> is
> > >> > > emerging
> > >> > > >>>>>> within a particular tradition or genre of discourse
> [within
> > >> > > effective
> > >> > > >>>>>> history]. I am playfully inquiring if it may be possible
> to
> > >> > *play*
> > >> > > >>>>>> [a
> > >> > > >>>>>> word you would not use but points to a hermeneutical genre]
> > on a
> > >> > > >>>>>> larger
> > >> > > >>>>>> *field of play* that *hears* and acknowledges your voice.
> > >> > > >>>>>> I will bring the discussion back to the paper under
> > discussion
> > >> > and
> > >> > > >>>>>> the
> > >> > > >>>>>> fuzzy boundaries between spontaneous and scientific
> > >> > [systematically
> > >> > > >>>>>> 'true'
> > >> > > >>>>>> organized] concepts. Andy the path of development FROM
> > >> > spontaneous
> > >> > > TO
> > >> > > >>>>>> scientific concepts seems to have deen articulated within a
> > >> genre.
> > >> > > >>>>>> However,
> > >> > > >>>>>> this is not a dis-interested scientific development. Mike
> > >> pointed
> > >> > to
> > >> > > >>>>>> developmental praxis as centrally concerning *social goods,
> > >> > > including
> > >> > > >>>>>> moral
> > >> > > >>>>>> goods*.
> > >> > > >>>>>> Within our developing understanding of ideal paths of
> > concept
> > >> > > >>>>>> formation
> > >> > > >>>>>> how is this emerging understanding circling back to
> exploring
> > >> how
> > >> > > our
> > >> > > >>>>>> *hearing* gives *voice* to the other*?
> > >> > > >>>>>> {Which I suggest is one way to view the development of
> > >> psychology
> > >> > > as a
> > >> > > >>>>>> project within a shared moral compass}
> > >> > > >>>>>> Larry
> > >> > > >>>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>>> ______________________________******____________
> > >> > > >>>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>> _____
> > >> > > >>>>> xmca mailing list
> > >> > > >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> > > >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/******listinfo/xmca<
> > >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca>
> > >> > > >>>>> <http://dss.**ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/**xmca<
> > >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
> > >> > > >>>>> >
> > >> > > >>>>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/**mailman/listinfo/xmca<http://**
> > >> > > >>>>> dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/**xmca<
> > >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > >> > > >>>>> >
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>>
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>> ______________________________****____________
> > >> > > >>> _____
> > >> > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > >> > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/****listinfo/xmca<
> > >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca>
> > >> > > >>> <http://dss.ucsd.**edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca<
> > >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > >> > > >>> >
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > --
> > >> > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > >> > > > ------------
> > >> > > > *Andy Blunden*
> > >> > > > Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >> > > > Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > >> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<
> > >> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> > > --
> > >> > > *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> > >> > > *Associate Professor
> > >> > > Social Foundations of Education
> > >> > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> > >> > > Georgia Southern University
> > >> > > P. O. Box 8144
> > >> > > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> > >> > > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> > >> > > Statesboro, GA 30460
> > >> > >
> > >> > > *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education
> is
> > its
> > >> > > midwife.*
> > >> > > *-*John Dewey.
> > >> > > __________________________________________
> > >> > > _____
> > >> > > xmca mailing list
> > >> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >> > >
> > >> > __________________________________________
> > >> > _____
> > >> > xmca mailing list
> > >> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > >> Visiting Assistant Professor
> > >> Department of Anthropology
> > >> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > >> Brigham Young University
> > >> Provo, UT 84602
> > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >> __________________________________________
> > >> _____
> > >> xmca mailing list
> > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> > > *Associate Professor
> > > Social Foundations of Education
> > > Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> > > Georgia Southern University
> > > P. O. Box 8144
> > > Phone: (912) 478-0355
> > > Fax: (912) 478-5382
> > > Statesboro, GA 30460
> > >
> > > *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> > > midwife.*
> > > *-*John Dewey.
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> --
> *Robert Lake Ed.D.
> *Associate Professor
> Social Foundations of Education
> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> Georgia Southern University
> P. O. Box 8144
> Phone: (912) 478-0355
> Fax: (912) 478-5382
> Statesboro, GA 30460
>
> *Democracy must be born anew in every generation, and education is its
> midwife.*
> *-*John Dewey.
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
--
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
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