Re: [xmca] Given Tablets But No Teachers, Ethiopian Kids Teach Themselves

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Andy-- I am concerned, among other things, with the question of whether and
under what conditions it is useful to make a distinction between learning
and development and in particular whether, at the temporal scale
of events that involve teaching/learning a form of change those adopting a
Vygotskian view would designate as development is possible.

If not, then I suggest that the notion of zone of proximal development is a
non-starter. Criticizing those who mistake a zone of proximal development
from a zone of proximal learning seems somehow irrelevant unless
development can be said to occur in teaching/learning interactions.

mike

mike

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 7:09 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:

> I think, Mike, that what you are concerned with is the study of situations
> and the permanency of changes in functioning wrought by the situations
> created by instruction. Yes?
>
> Andy
>
> mike cole wrote:
>
>> Yes, all of that seems perfectly likely. But in so far as the children
>> actually engage with visual/motion/sound simulations that the buttons
>> produce, might they become involved in a process of meaning making that
>> could
>> have, as one of its outcomes, the ability to read this message?
>>
>> I really think we have no idea. The idea that the kind of literacy
>> embodied
>> in this message could disappear and be replaced by some other, "more
>> adaptive" semiotic system is at least wrong and perhaps dangerous.
>> But we are seeing all sorts of hybridity arise.
>>
>> This brings us back to the role of INSTRUCTION (Obuchenie) in the
>> acquisition of the ability to read and write an alphabetic language. We
>> know that the process ordinarily begins near, or around, the major
>> bio-social-behavioral shift associated with losing front teeth. Up to now
>> such instruction comes in packages called "classes" and in those classroom
>> events, face to face, paper and pencil and chalk in hand, And there, a
>> microgenetic process of change-in-interaction occurs.
>>
>> People seem pretty well agreed that something important changes between
>> the
>> ages of 5-7 (roughly) around the world, except in cases of extreme lack of
>> normal environmental support. That counts as development.
>>
>> So I have been trying to focus down on the level of what happens in those
>> events with respect to the process of obuchenie, teaching/learning. At
>> this
>> level, which seems to encompass the temporal scale of microgeneis, is
>> there
>> change we would also call develoment, or not.
>>
>> If not, then it seems to me that the notion of a Zone of Proximal
>> Development is an oxymoron.
>>
>> I believe that Werner had a way of trying to resolve this problem that Joe
>> has tried to educate us in. I am unsure of its application, say, to the
>> process of acquiring an alphabetic written language. Would it change our
>> modes of instruction? My guess is yes, but I am not sure how.
>>
>> Anyway, its interesting to observe how the young appropriate the artifacts
>> we encompass them in. That process might also be thought about with
>> respect
>> to obuchnie.
>> mike
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Bill Kerr <billkerr@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> I've heard similar anecdotes, Helen, about the fate of xos in remote
>>> indigenous Australia
>>>
>>> There have been various sophisticated arguments about new media replacing
>>> old media (Seymour Papert and others). I recall an article by Papert
>>> titled
>>> "Literacy and Letteracy in the Media Ages". Also similar work by James
>>> Gee
>>> about semiotic domains and video games.  I was once an enthusiast about
>>> this. In practice it is only a real consideration for middle class kids
>>> who
>>> have been taught to read and write before they get to school by their
>>> caring parents.
>>>
>>> Once you actually work with disadvantaged kids who can't read, write,
>>> subtract and have never heard of "divide" (and they are 15 years old)
>>> then
>>> the mindset changes about what is needed.
>>>
>>> Then we have some academics who love to play with technology and do
>>> education in a way that *they* find interesting and engaging. Then if we
>>> can present an argument that this *also* is an efficient way of teaching
>>> the *basics* (3 Rs) to kids who don't have them then not only can we have
>>> fun in the things that interest us but also pretend that we are
>>> liberating
>>> the wretched of the earth.
>>>
>>> Negroponte says in the original article:
>>>
>>> In an interview after his talk, Negroponte said that while the early
>>> results are promising, reaching conclusions about whether children could
>>> learn to read this way would require more time. “If it gets funded, it
>>> would need to continue for another a year and a half to two years to come
>>> to a conclusion that the scientific community would accept,” Negroponte
>>> said. “We’d have to start with a new village and make a clean start.”
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't hold your breath. That won't happen. The real discussion should
>>> focus
>>> on the most effective ways of teaching kids who don't have the 3Rs about
>>> how to acquire them.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 9:49 AM, Helen Harper <helen.harper@bigpond.com
>>>
>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>       What language are the activities on the tablet in? It wasn't made
>>>>
>>>>
>>> explicit
>>>
>>>
>>>> in the article, and the implication seemed to be that the script was
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Roman
>>>
>>>
>>>> script with English words. It's a bit odd to claim children are learning
>>>> literacy in a language they presumably don't speak, in a script which
>>>>
>>>>
>>> isn't
>>>
>>>
>>>> the script for the language they do speak, surely?
>>>>
>>>> As for the XOs - arrrrgggh! A few Aboriginal schools I've visited
>>>>
>>>>
>>> recently
>>>
>>>
>>>> in north Australia have them and there's not a lot of enthusiasm for
>>>>
>>>>
>>> them -
>>>
>>>
>>>> from either teachers of kids. Mostly they don't get used. Those useless
>>>> green things, people call them. But maybe this is unfair. We're a rich
>>>> country and everyone's seen iPads (and lots of schools have found
>>>> funding
>>>> to get iPads too). Who would want an XO when you could have the 'real
>>>> thing'? Think horse and buggy versus air conditioned 4 wheel drive.
>>>>
>>>> In fact, using iPads is sometimes a default successful classroom
>>>> activity
>>>> with kids who don't engage well with schooling generally, I've observed.
>>>> All kids can play around with the cameras and funny fonts and we can say
>>>> we're doing 'multiliteracies'. Having said that, I've also seen some
>>>> stunning classroom work using iPad apps that draw very low-literate kids
>>>>
>>>>
>>> in
>>>
>>>
>>>> to use rich language, print and images to create beautiful texts that
>>>> are
>>>> also meaningful. But this work is always mediated in a very purposeful
>>>>
>>>>
>>> way
>>>
>>>
>>>> by a highly literate person, at least in the early stages, from my
>>>> observations.
>>>>
>>>> Helen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 02/11/2012, at 1:34 AM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>> It would great if we could do on the spot research of this situation as
>>>>> well as the hole in the wall context. What precisely is the tablet
>>>>> mediating?
>>>>> Carol
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 31 October 2012 18:13, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting story, Peter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I found it interesting that the "learn to read" precedes "reading to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> learn"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> formula used in the article.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not at all clear that a print-literacy notion of what reading is and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> what
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> the ordering of sense making through graphic symbols and
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> representations is
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> appropriate for what people hope is going on there.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 5:52 AM, Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> http://mashable.com/2012/10/**29/tablets-ethiopian-children/<http://mashable.com/2012/10/29/tablets-ethiopian-children/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>>>> _____
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>>> _____
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Sessional Teacher: Wits School of Languages
>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>>> _____
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________**____________
>>>> _____
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> ______________________________**____________
>>> _____
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________**____________
>> _____
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**AndyBlunden<http://ucsd.academia.edu/AndyBlunden>
>
>
__________________________________________
_____
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca