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Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren

To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
From: Ivan Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu>
Date: Sun, 3 Jun 2012 10:04:09 -0700
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Yeah, that's the branded advantage of the kind of shoe I'm describing
--it's mostly all true in my experience.

I've got a couple of friends who have taken to walking completely barefoot
all the time, and they laugh at me in a (an)knowing kind of way:  "now you
understand more than the others, but you're not quite there yet, and you
still think it's the shoe that makes the difference!".  I wanna laugh back
and say something about culture and artifacts, but then I remember that
mediation is complex and not about "amplifying" but reorganizing.  So, from
their point of view shoes have silenced the earth to our feet, while my
soccer playing friends have other things to listen to.

baby steps

ivan

PS (From the dictionary, organize has some interesting roots.   Archaic
--arrange or form into a living being or tissue: "the soul doth organize
the body".  From Latin organum ‘instrument, tool’ (see organ) )



On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:

> Thanks Ivan and Larry, very helpful for fleshing out this new terrain (a
> lovely mixed metaphor speaking me, no?).
>
> Larry, I wonder if there isn't some conflict or difference between
> Gadamer's notion of "opening" or putting into question and what seems to be
> coming from the MSOC (and Latour and others) and in which the individual
> seems to be increasingly closed (I suspect that 'determined' might be too
> strong of langage, but not sure). But maybe I'm misreading your sense of
> "openng"?
>
> Ivan, love the shoe with toes example (I would add that there is a semiotic
> strangeness of sitting with a person whose individual toes are visible -
> not that it bothers me, but I do wonder if this would "offend" in polite
> company?). And I would add that, as I understand it, the lack of heavy
> padding on your shoes also makes your whole body accomodate to the shoe so
> that you tend to strike the ground more with the ball of your foot rather
> than your heel. And as I understand it, this is much better for posture and
> for general joint health (heel striking is much more jolting on the body),
> and it also helps with things like balance and stability because the
> muscles around your toes are brought into functioning again (as opposed to
> in a regular tennis shoe where they are rendered useless because they can't
> grasp or grab anything...). So our shoes "speak" us (as well as "speak of"
> us!).
>
> -greg
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 8:16 AM, Ivan Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > I know the MSOC relies heavily on a Latourian understanding of non-human
> > actors.  When an artist says that the medium in which she works is alive
> > and speaks to her, most of us have no trouble granting the *artist* this
> > use of language.  Artists are quirky like that.  But the compelling idea
> > I'm hearing here from MSOC, and Latour, and Vygotsky, is that for
> mediation
> > to be an effectual process in interaction it *must* be that we are all
> > artists in tuning into and hearing the voices of non-human actants.
> >
> > I've recently been using five-toed shoes with very thin soles, through
> > which I can feel the ground much more delicately than before.  So now I
> > tend to walk off the beaten path and off the sidewalk, because it's very
> > nice to feel the textured ground below my feet.  The problem is that this
> > is creating tension with my friends when we go on walks together --I see
> > them look a bit perplexed and get a bit annoyed when I start crossing a
> > patch of woods instead of staying on the straight and narrow of the
> > sidewalk.  Wrapped in thick shoes, they slip and slide, loose their
> footing
> > and find it hard to save face --so they get mad at me.
> >
> > But it's not my fault, since the ground speaks differently to me now.
> >
> > Ivan
> >
> > On Sun, Jun 3, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Greg, the "how so" that considers micro-interaction may have an
> > > *as-structure" or ventriloquation of language as metaphoricity.
> > >
> > > In the foreword to the book, [pageXV] the author states,
> > >
> > > Attention shifts from speech to *figures* of speech. Then an even
> > stranger
> > > thing happens: The very notion of figures of speech reverses itself and
> > > becomes *literal*: we are being acted upon by these invisible entities
> > that
> > > *haunt* us and populate (or even crowd) the interaction.  At this
> point,
> > > ventriloquism is inverted: we, the human subjects are the *dummies*
> > toward
> > > which other entities are projecting their real voices AS IF they were
> > > coming from us. All the studies of metaphor, of story telling, or
> staging
> > > arguments are put upside down. We are spoken or silenced by others, by
> > > *aliens* toward which we should direct our attention IF we want to
> > > UNDERSTAND what makes us act or speak"
> > >
> > > Greg, this description of the sequence FROM  figures of speech TO the
> > > literal as a movement or process  *AS IF* the voices [or texts] were
> > coming
> > > from us, points to Gadamer's notion: *fusion* of horizons.  Language
> *as*
> > > fusion [language as metaphoricity or as-structure].
> > > THIS process BECOMES literal as a dialogical relational process.
> > > When we are spoken or silenced by *aliens* or alterity we are put into
> > > question and OPENED. How we are opened by the invisible entities that
> > haunt
> > > us and populate our interactions becomes a matter of interpretation
> which
> > > may lead to genuine understanding.
> > >
> > > Larry
> > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 10:56 PM, Greg Thompson <
> > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> > > >wrote:
> > >
> > > > don't know about ventriloquation/dual stimulation (sounds promising).
> > > > Rather I'm seeing connections to a processual/relational ontology in
> > > which
> > > > the medium (communication) constitutes the so-called "things" of the
> > > world.
> > > > (cf. Korzybski, Abbott, and Packer), with an answer to "how so" that
> > > > considers micro-interaction. Very appealing (to me).
> > > > -greg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:35 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I wonder if ventriloquation is related in any way to the notion of
> > dual
> > > > > stimulation?
> > > > >
> > > > > mike
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 9:19 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Greg, here is a further description of the book. It seems to be
> the
> > > > book
> > > > > > is putting into question a similar theme to Gadamer who suggests
> > > > > effective
> > > > > > history has its own agency [living text] and the *fusion* of
> > > > > understandings
> > > > > > modify [expand] BOTH horizons.  The text has its own agency.
> > > > > > Not sure if Gadamer is included in this book but the theme seems
> > > > > > fascinating [and a way to understand organizations]
> > > > > > The cost of the book is prohibitive but the theme is fascinating.
> > > > > > Larry
> > > > > >
> > > > > > FROM THE PUBLISHER
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What happens when people communicate or dialogue with each other?
> > > This
> > > > is
> > > > > > the daunting question that this book proposes to address by
> > starting
> > > > > from a
> > > > > > controversial hypothesis: What if human interactants were not the
> > > only
> > > > > ones
> > > > > > to be considered, paraphrasing Austin (1962), as 'doing things
> with
> > > > > words'?
> > > > > > That is, what if other 'things' could also be granted the status
> of
> > > > > agents
> > > > > > in a dialogical situation? "Action and Agency in Dialogue:
> Passion,
> > > > > > Incarnation, and Ventriloquism" proposes to explore this unique
> > > > > hypothesis
> > > > > > by mobilizing metaphorically the notion of ventriloquism.
> According
> > > to
> > > > > this
> > > > > > ventriloqual perspective, interactions are never purely local,
> but
> > > > > > dislocal, that is, they constantly mobilize figures (collectives,
> > > > > > principles, values, emotions, etc.) that incarnate themselves in
> > > > people's
> > > > > > discussions. This highly original book, which develops the
> > > analytical,
> > > > > > practical and ethical dimensions of such a theoretical
> positioning,
> > > may
> > > > > be
> > > > > > of interest to communication scholars, linguists, sociologists,
> > > > > > conversation analysts, management and organizational scholars, as
> > > well
> > > > as
> > > > > > philosophers interested in language, action and ethics.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, Jun 2, 2012 at 8:59 PM, Greg Thompson <
> > > > greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> > > > > > >wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyone out there know much about Francois Cooren or the
> Montreal
> > > > School
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > Organizational Communication?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for the former, Cooren's book Action and Agency in Dialogue
> > > asks:
> > > > > > > "What if human interactants were not the only ones to be
> > > considered,
> > > > > > > paraphrasing Austin (1962), as “doing things with words”? That
> > is,
> > > > what
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > other “things” could also be granted the status of agents in a
> > > > > dialogical
> > > > > > > situation?"
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for the latter, the MSOC is characterized by wikipedia as:
> > > > > > > "taking communication as the "site and surface" of
> organizations,
> > > > > meaning
> > > > > > > that the latter emerge from and are maintained by communication
> > > > > > processes."
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Both of these seem to be very important points that, I thought,
> > > > > > articulate
> > > > > > > well with recent XMCA conversations.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Anyone have any insight?
> > > > > > > Perhaps a recommendation?
> > > > > > > -greg
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > > > > > Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
> > > > > > > Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition
> > > > > > > Department of Communication
> > > > > > > University of California, San Diego
> > > > > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > > > > > > __________________________________________
> > > > > > > _____
> > > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > __________________________________________
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________________
> > > > > _____
> > > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > > Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
> > > > Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition
> > > > Department of Communication
> > > > University of California, San Diego
> > > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > > > __________________________________________
> > > > _____
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition
> Department of Communication
> University of California, San Diego
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
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Follow-Ups:
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: "Duvall, Emily" <emily@uidaho.edu>

References:
- [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Ivan Rosero <irosero@ucsd.edu>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

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