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Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren

To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca@weber.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
From: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2012 22:41:40 +0100
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On 5 June 2012 21:54, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Huw, thanks for the return to Montreal.
>
> Yeah, I am a fan of processual views that favor relations over substance,
> and in that way of thinking, "organizations" are not essential things
> (elements), but exist only in and by the processes the constitute them.
> Communication is the primary means by which these organizations are
> (re)produced, and that is where I am optimistic about the MSOC's approach.
>
> As for your question about "thoughts around the distribution of
> appreciating different problems in the process of emerging roles?", I must
> confess that I don't follow the question. I don't know the MSOC school well
> enough to recognize their language, so maybe you are using their language?
>

No, my own words.  Problems within the remit of the organizational activity
which are not traversed (avoided), i.e. an implicit delimitation of what is
and isn't the 'site'.  It's not a big deal.

Huw


>
> Some clarification of the question would be helpful to me.
> -greg
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 5:26 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > On 5 June 2012 04:56, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >
> > Greg,
> >
> > Re your Montreal question, did you have any thoughts around the
> > distribution of appreciating different problems in the process of
> emerging
> > roles?  On a smaller, and perhaps simpler, scale I recall situations
> where
> > problems had been setup for children to stumble upon, but that were
> > seemingly not registered by them.  A difficult problem left standing
> would
> > amount to... what?  A conversation and vocabulary around site boundaries?
> >
> > The suggestion that  'communication is the "site and surface" of
> > organizations' seems productive, though I'm not taking this as
> > comprehensive, rather as a reference to communicational exchange. If we
> > want to be comprehensive then I think we need to include the
> organisational
> > behaviour within the circumference of communication.
> >
> > Huw
> >
> >
> > >
> > >                Joseph
> > >
> > > On Jun 4, 2012, at 5:01 PM, Huw Lloyd wrote:
> > >
> > > > They're of no consequence for those deaf to reason.  ;)
> > > >
> > > > Huw
> > > >
> > > > On 4 June 2012 10:53, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> And here's about deaf-blind people:
> > > >>
> http://www.marxists.org/**archive/meshcheryakov/**awakening/index.htm
> > <
> > > http://www.marxists.org/archive/meshcheryakov/awakening/index.htm>
> > > >>
> > > >> Andy
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >>> According to Gallaudet University (which is for deaf people),
> > > >>> http://research.gallaudet.edu/**Demographics/deaf-US.php<
> > > http://research.gallaudet.edu/Demographics/deaf-US.php>
> > > >>> There are a number of listings of deaf people of influence, e.g.,
> > > >>> http://www.start-american-**
> > > sign-language.com/famous-deaf-**people.html<
> > > http://www.start-american-sign-language.com/famous-deaf-people.html>
> > > >>> http://www.op97.org/teach-**learn/documents/**PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf
> <
> > > http://www.op97.org/teach-learn/documents/PeopleWhoAreDeaf.pdf>
> > > >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**List_of_deaf_people<
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaf_people>
> > > >>> http://www.deafpeople.com/
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.**
> > > ucsd.edu<xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu>]
> > > >>> On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
> > > >>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 6:12 PM
> > > >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > >>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Peter,
> > > >>> What percentage of any population is deaf and what influence do
> they
> > > >>> exert upon the world-view of their society?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>               Joseph
> > > >>>
> > > >>> On Jun 3, 2012, at 3:00 PM, Peter Smagorinsky wrote:
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>> I also wonder, what about deaf people?
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> > > bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > >>>> On Behalf Of Vera John-Steiner
> > > >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 5:54 PM
> > > >>>> To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
> > > >>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Hi Joseph
> > > >>>> I wonder whether the ultimate finality of the word--"everything is
> > > >>>> relative to the word"--provides a too narrow, monistic view.
> > > >>>> Euclidean geometry is rich in proofs which are presented through
> > > visual
> > > >>>> abstraction. These can be explained verbally but their persuasive
> > > power is
> > > >>>> visual.
> > > >>>> This is an interesting though wandering discussion from toes to
> > > Euclid.
> > > >>>> Vera
> > > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > > >>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-
> > > bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
> > > >>>> On Behalf Of Joseph Gilbert
> > > >>>> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2012 3:32 PM
> > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > >>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> Nothing communicates as profoundly as vocal sounds, - motions of
> the
> > > >>>> human body -. Everything is named, - identified -, by sounds made
> by
> > > our
> > > >>>> body. Our own body-emotional goings on is the currency by which
> all
> > > else is
> > > >>>> valued. We relate to our world with our word.
> > > >>>> Everything is reletive to the word. The "final word" on anything
> IS
> > > the
> > > >>>> word.
> > > >>>> The only handle we have on the meaning of our world is the effect
> on
> > > us
> > > >>>> of the sounds of our words. We can prove nothing and can only feel
> > our
> > > >>>> vocal sounds for information of how we are affected by things. It
> > > takes
> > > >>>> different words to communicate different information. Bear in mind
> > > that
> > > >>>> words are fundamentally sounds and secondarily, referential tools.
> > > When we
> > > >>>> refer to a thing, the referential tool is between ourselves and
> the
> > > thing.
> > > >>>> We perceive and are affected by the tool - the word - first and
> > > foremost
> > > >>>> and then also by the thought of the referred-to thing.
> Subliminally,
> > > the
> > > >>>> word defines the thing:
> > > >>>> Consciously, the thing defines the word.
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>               Joseph Gilbert
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> On Jun 2, 2012, at 8:59 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>> Anyone out there know much about Francois Cooren or the Montreal
> > > School
> > > >>>>> of Organizational Communication?
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> As for the former, Cooren's book Action and Agency in Dialogue
> > asks:
> > > >>>>> "What if human interactants were not the only ones to be
> > considered,
> > > >>>>> paraphrasing Austin (1962), as "doing things with words"? That
> is,
> > > what if
> > > >>>>> other "things" could also be granted the status of agents in a
> > > dialogical
> > > >>>>> situation?"
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> As for the latter, the MSOC is characterized by wikipedia as:
> > > >>>>> "taking communication as the "site and surface" of organizations,
> > > >>>>> meaning that the latter emerge from and are maintained by
> > > communication
> > > >>>>> processes."
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Both of these seem to be very important points that, I thought,
> > > >>>>> articulate well with recent XMCA conversations.
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> Anyone have any insight?
> > > >>>>> Perhaps a recommendation?
> > > >>>>> -greg
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>> --
> > > >>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > >>>>> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar Laboratory of Comparative
> > > Human
> > > >>>>> Cognition Department of Communication University of California,
> San
> > > Diego
> > > >>>>> http://ucsd.academia.edu/**GregoryThompson<
> > > http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
> > > >>>>> ______________________________**____________
> > > >>>>> _____
> > > >>>>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>>>
> > > >>>> ______________________________**____________
> > > >>>> _____
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> > > >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ______________________________**____________
> > > >>>> _____
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> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>> ______________________________**____________
> > > >>>> _____
> > > >>>> xmca mailing list
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> > > >>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ______________________________**____________
> > > >>> _____
> > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>> ______________________________**____________
> > > >>> _____
> > > >>> xmca mailing list
> > > >>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > > >> ------------
> > > >> *Andy Blunden*
> > > >> Joint Editor MCA: http://www.tandfonline.com/**toc/hmca20/18/1<
> > > http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/hmca20/18/1>
> > > >> Home Page: http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > > >> Book: http://www.brill.nl/concepts
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ______________________________**____________
> > > >> _____
> > > >> xmca mailing list
> > > >> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > >> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/**listinfo/xmca<
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca>
> > > >>
> > > > __________________________________________
> > > > _____
> > > > xmca mailing list
> > > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > > __________________________________________
> > > _____
> > > xmca mailing list
> > > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> > >
> > __________________________________________
> > _____
> > xmca mailing list
> > xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> > http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Sanford I. Berman Post-Doctoral Scholar
> Laboratory of Comparative Human Cognition
> Department of Communication
> University of California, San Diego
> http://ucsd.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> __________________________________________
> _____
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
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References:
- [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com>
- RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: "Vera John-Steiner" <vygotsky@unm.edu>
- RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com>
- RE: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Peter Smagorinsky <smago@uga.edu>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
- Re: [xmca] Francois Cooren
  - From: Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>

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