Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Oh!! Blainey's historical account is a video, Phil! Not a book?
mike

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com> wrote:

> That's an interesting angle, Steve. When reading Blainey's historical
> accounts (more recent than your 7-digit past) of the social organisation of
> nomadic life for Australian Aboriginals, I found several illuminating
> vignettes of human activity that could easily be substituted for the
> original Leontievinian collective hunt, with the use of mimicry, gesture,
> body movement ...
>
> but I just noticed that I joined in a discussion (which I haven't been
> following) of some recent media that I didn't see, so I might pause and take
> the time to watch the series http://video.pbs.org/video/1378637899/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phil
>
> On 28/01/2010, at 5:07 PM, Steve Gabosch wrote:
>
>  Thanks, Phil.  Happy Australia Day (January 26) :-)) .  Another angle to
>> think about, emphasized by anthropologists such as Evelyn Reed, is besides
>> the impressive list of **technological** accomplishments that stone age
>> humans developed over millions of years, humans over those thousands of
>> millennia developed a complex array of new kinds of **social** institutions.
>>  In every social respect, the Neandertals, for example, were not primates -
>> they were humans.  Were they not?  We live in a world today where the sparks
>> and flames of barbarian conquest and the tools and symbols of expansion seem
>> to be greatly valued over such social accomplishments.  Humanity is
>> **millions** of years old - yes?
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Phil Chappell wrote:
>>
>>  Geoffrey Blainey's 'Triumph of the Nomads - A History of Aboriginal
>>> Australia' suggests just that, Steve and is also a fascinating read  for
>>> those interested in learning how humans  conquered their environment through
>>> creative tool use and ongoing technological developments a long time before
>>> the 30 k dot on in history.It was the recent colonisation movement that,
>>> sadly, led to the demise of that superior way of life.
>>>
>>> And to think the nation celebrated Australia Day once again with the
>>> union jack splashed around in all its glory.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2010, at 08:25AM, "Steve Gabosch" <
>>> stevegabosch@me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is little doubt that humans began to set the world aflame when
>>>> they migrated to all its corners 30K+ years ago, and things have been
>>>> changing rapidly since, relatively speaking.  Quite the wave of sparks
>>>> and consequent flames.  And quite the range of "genius" and
>>>> "stupidity" seems to have accompanied these new powers.  But here is
>>>> the question:  was 30 kya really the "debut," as the PBS intro says,
>>>> of human sparking?  Or did it begin much earlier - millions of years
>>>> earlier?
>>>>
>>>> - Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2010, at 4:56 AM, David H Kirshner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Steve,
>>>>> I didn't see much of the series, but one part I did see had to do with
>>>>> stone tool-making of a hominid cousin--I think Neanderthal. The
>>>>> comment
>>>>> was that over thousands of years the technology of making this stone
>>>>> tool did not progress an iota. So the fact of (somehow ???) inventing
>>>>> the technology was a spark of genius, the spark didn't quite kindle
>>>>> into
>>>>> flame at that phylogenetic period.
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:30 AM
>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike's comment about "many sparks," and that nicely made PBS show now
>>>>> available online in at least 2 of the 3 episodes about "The Human
>>>>> Spark -The Nature of Human Uniqueness", has gotten me thinking about a
>>>>> line of questioning that has been on my mind for some time, and which
>>>>> I'll pose in terms of the spark metaphor.
>>>>>
>>>>> An online introduction to the series suggests that the human spark may
>>>>> be only 30K years old.
>>>>>
>>>>> from:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/humanspark/about/about-the-series-introduction/3
>>>>> 5/
>>>>>
>>>>> "In the first program, Alda witnesses the dazzling (apparent) debut of
>>>>> the Human Spark in the spectacular 30,000 year-old artwork carved and
>>>>> painted on the walls of caves in France ..."
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is: didn't the Neandertal peoples also possess some of the
>>>>> 'human spark'?  And how about our many other human cousins - didn't
>>>>> humanity begin to 'spark' its way out of the animal world millions of
>>>>> years ago?
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely, migrating all over the planet 50K or more years ago, and the
>>>>> development all the new technologies associated with that period -
>>>>> sometimes dubbed the "Great Leap Forward" - (barbed hooks, traps, wall
>>>>> paintings, etc. etc. etc.) - involved a new and dramatic wave of
>>>>> sparks.  And yes, from available evidence, modern humans, homo sapiens
>>>>> sapiens, appear to be no more than about 200K years old (all dating
>>>>> mentioned here is very rough, of course).
>>>>>
>>>>> But what about other human (humanoid?) accomplishments - durable
>>>>> production tools such as stone axes, fire, and so forth?  Those were
>>>>> results and causes of human sparks, too - yes?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 22, 2010, at 5:42 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Larry---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could we start to think in this way: elements of what created homo
>>>>>> sapiens
>>>>>> sapiens was not a single spark. it was, under very special
>>>>>> environmental
>>>>>> circumstances, perhaps involving also a mutation of some part of the
>>>>>> genome
>>>>>> simulataneously, the coordination of many sparks at one time and
>>>>>> place?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Compression of different humanoid populations in Northern Europe
>>>>>> during ice age circa 50k years ago give or take several k years?
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi everyone
>>>>>>> I posted this thought earlier and addressed it to Mabel by accident.
>>>>>>> I thought I had lost it to the great unknown.
>>>>>>> So here is my question directed through Mabel's response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:04 pm
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>> To: Larry <lpurss@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi, Larry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before saying anything... did you mean to send this note to xmca?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mabel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:06:30 -0800
>>>>>>>> From: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>> To: liliamabel@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are welcome Mabel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a question about theoretically trying to connect the dots
>>>>>>>> around a theme of  "theory of mind" referred to in the
>>>>>>>> Human Spark and the notions of development.
>>>>>>>> The show pointed out that chimps have awareness of their own
>>>>>>>> perspective and may have limited capacity to "understand"
>>>>>>>> anothers intentionality. However humans have the "capacity" or
>>>>>>>> "potential" to hold up to 5 levels or perspectives of
>>>>>>>> intentionality of mind.
>>>>>>>> From a developmental perspective of "emergence" the theme that
>>>>>>>> this seems to point to being able to hold multiple perspectives
>>>>>>>> at the same time in "tension".
>>>>>>>> Lave's notion of development as being able to take different
>>>>>>>> "positions" (the structured term is "roles") may be an aspect of
>>>>>>>> this emergence.
>>>>>>>> Piaget's notion of de-centering may be pointing to a similar
>>>>>>>> capacity.
>>>>>>>> The development of the capacity to "reflect" or RE-cognize may
>>>>>>>> also be pointing in the same area.
>>>>>>>> Bhaktin's notion of multivoicedness may be another perspective.
>>>>>>>> G.H.Mead's and W. James social self  also seem to point to this.
>>>>>>>> Peirce's notion of "fallibility" or holding the tension of
>>>>>>>> "uncertainty" may also be implicated.
>>>>>>>> Do  others on CHAT see a biological component to this
>>>>>>>> capacity or the alternative is that our cultures are in such
>>>>>>>> tension with the modern forms of communication that out of this
>>>>>>>> cultural tension notions such as the above are being constructed
>>>>>>>> to contain and give meaning to the tension.
>>>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>> I was curious how others on CHAT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:12 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>> To: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Larry,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the reminder! I saw the other two: very good.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mabel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:19:56 -0800
>>>>>>>>>> From: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For people on the west coast of America, the 3rd installment
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of "The Human Spark" is on at 8PM Pacific time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
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