Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?

[mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>]

Yes re Neanderthals, Steve.
Gotta get the book on aboriginals, Phil. Thanks for that. The centrality of
dealing with largish groups and special forms of human sociality is a
rapidly expanding theme.
BUT

The literature on this topic of article and book length is growing faster
than the combined potential of all of xmca to type single letters in our
abbreviated sentences! Daunting, to say the least. And meantime we have the
current cohort of homo sapiens who seem bent on putting an end to the pesky
species to deal with!
mike

PS- UCSD now has a Ph.D. concentration in "anthropogeny."

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com> wrote:

> That's an interesting angle, Steve. When reading Blainey's historical
> accounts (more recent than your 7-digit past) of the social organisation of
> nomadic life for Australian Aboriginals, I found several illuminating
> vignettes of human activity that could easily be substituted for the
> original Leontievinian collective hunt, with the use of mimicry, gesture,
> body movement ...
>
> but I just noticed that I joined in a discussion (which I haven't been
> following) of some recent media that I didn't see, so I might pause and take
> the time to watch the series http://video.pbs.org/video/1378637899/
>
> Cheers,
>
> Phil
>
> On 28/01/2010, at 5:07 PM, Steve Gabosch wrote:
>
>  Thanks, Phil.  Happy Australia Day (January 26) :-)) .  Another angle to
>> think about, emphasized by anthropologists such as Evelyn Reed, is besides
>> the impressive list of **technological** accomplishments that stone age
>> humans developed over millions of years, humans over those thousands of
>> millennia developed a complex array of new kinds of **social** institutions.
>>  In every social respect, the Neandertals, for example, were not primates -
>> they were humans.  Were they not?  We live in a world today where the sparks
>> and flames of barbarian conquest and the tools and symbols of expansion seem
>> to be greatly valued over such social accomplishments.  Humanity is
>> **millions** of years old - yes?
>>
>> - Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 26, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Phil Chappell wrote:
>>
>>  Geoffrey Blainey's 'Triumph of the Nomads - A History of Aboriginal
>>> Australia' suggests just that, Steve and is also a fascinating read  for
>>> those interested in learning how humans  conquered their environment through
>>> creative tool use and ongoing technological developments a long time before
>>> the 30 k dot on in history.It was the recent colonisation movement that,
>>> sadly, led to the demise of that superior way of life.
>>>
>>> And to think the nation celebrated Australia Day once again with the
>>> union jack splashed around in all its glory.
>>>
>>> Phil
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2010, at 08:25AM, "Steve Gabosch" <
>>> stevegabosch@me.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is little doubt that humans began to set the world aflame when
>>>> they migrated to all its corners 30K+ years ago, and things have been
>>>> changing rapidly since, relatively speaking.  Quite the wave of sparks
>>>> and consequent flames.  And quite the range of "genius" and
>>>> "stupidity" seems to have accompanied these new powers.  But here is
>>>> the question:  was 30 kya really the "debut," as the PBS intro says,
>>>> of human sparking?  Or did it begin much earlier - millions of years
>>>> earlier?
>>>>
>>>> - Steve
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 26, 2010, at 4:56 AM, David H Kirshner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Steve,
>>>>> I didn't see much of the series, but one part I did see had to do with
>>>>> stone tool-making of a hominid cousin--I think Neanderthal. The
>>>>> comment
>>>>> was that over thousands of years the technology of making this stone
>>>>> tool did not progress an iota. So the fact of (somehow ???) inventing
>>>>> the technology was a spark of genius, the spark didn't quite kindle
>>>>> into
>>>>> flame at that phylogenetic period.
>>>>> David
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:30 AM
>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?
>>>>>
>>>>> Mike's comment about "many sparks," and that nicely made PBS show now
>>>>> available online in at least 2 of the 3 episodes about "The Human
>>>>> Spark -The Nature of Human Uniqueness", has gotten me thinking about a
>>>>> line of questioning that has been on my mind for some time, and which
>>>>> I'll pose in terms of the spark metaphor.
>>>>>
>>>>> An online introduction to the series suggests that the human spark may
>>>>> be only 30K years old.
>>>>>
>>>>> from:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/humanspark/about/about-the-series-introduction/3
>>>>> 5/
>>>>>
>>>>> "In the first program, Alda witnesses the dazzling (apparent) debut of
>>>>> the Human Spark in the spectacular 30,000 year-old artwork carved and
>>>>> painted on the walls of caves in France ..."
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is: didn't the Neandertal peoples also possess some of the
>>>>> 'human spark'?  And how about our many other human cousins - didn't
>>>>> humanity begin to 'spark' its way out of the animal world millions of
>>>>> years ago?
>>>>>
>>>>> Surely, migrating all over the planet 50K or more years ago, and the
>>>>> development all the new technologies associated with that period -
>>>>> sometimes dubbed the "Great Leap Forward" - (barbed hooks, traps, wall
>>>>> paintings, etc. etc. etc.) - involved a new and dramatic wave of
>>>>> sparks.  And yes, from available evidence, modern humans, homo sapiens
>>>>> sapiens, appear to be no more than about 200K years old (all dating
>>>>> mentioned here is very rough, of course).
>>>>>
>>>>> But what about other human (humanoid?) accomplishments - durable
>>>>> production tools such as stone axes, fire, and so forth?  Those were
>>>>> results and causes of human sparks, too - yes?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 22, 2010, at 5:42 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Larry---
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could we start to think in this way: elements of what created homo
>>>>>> sapiens
>>>>>> sapiens was not a single spark. it was, under very special
>>>>>> environmental
>>>>>> circumstances, perhaps involving also a mutation of some part of the
>>>>>> genome
>>>>>> simulataneously, the coordination of many sparks at one time and
>>>>>> place?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Compression of different humanoid populations in Northern Europe
>>>>>> during ice age circa 50k years ago give or take several k years?
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Hi everyone
>>>>>>> I posted this thought earlier and addressed it to Mabel by accident.
>>>>>>> I thought I had lost it to the great unknown.
>>>>>>> So here is my question directed through Mabel's response.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:04 pm
>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>> To: Larry <lpurss@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi, Larry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Before saying anything... did you mean to send this note to xmca?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mabel
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:06:30 -0800
>>>>>>>> From: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>> To: liliamabel@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You are welcome Mabel.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have a question about theoretically trying to connect the dots
>>>>>>>> around a theme of  "theory of mind" referred to in the
>>>>>>>> Human Spark and the notions of development.
>>>>>>>> The show pointed out that chimps have awareness of their own
>>>>>>>> perspective and may have limited capacity to "understand"
>>>>>>>> anothers intentionality. However humans have the "capacity" or
>>>>>>>> "potential" to hold up to 5 levels or perspectives of
>>>>>>>> intentionality of mind.
>>>>>>>> From a developmental perspective of "emergence" the theme that
>>>>>>>> this seems to point to being able to hold multiple perspectives
>>>>>>>> at the same time in "tension".
>>>>>>>> Lave's notion of development as being able to take different
>>>>>>>> "positions" (the structured term is "roles") may be an aspect of
>>>>>>>> this emergence.
>>>>>>>> Piaget's notion of de-centering may be pointing to a similar
>>>>>>>> capacity.
>>>>>>>> The development of the capacity to "reflect" or RE-cognize may
>>>>>>>> also be pointing in the same area.
>>>>>>>> Bhaktin's notion of multivoicedness may be another perspective.
>>>>>>>> G.H.Mead's and W. James social self  also seem to point to this.
>>>>>>>> Peirce's notion of "fallibility" or holding the tension of
>>>>>>>> "uncertainty" may also be implicated.
>>>>>>>> Do  others on CHAT see a biological component to this
>>>>>>>> capacity or the alternative is that our cultures are in such
>>>>>>>> tension with the modern forms of communication that out of this
>>>>>>>> cultural tension notions such as the above are being constructed
>>>>>>>> to contain and give meaning to the tension.
>>>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>> I was curious how others on CHAT
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:12 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>> To: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Larry,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the reminder! I saw the other two: very good.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mabel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:19:56 -0800
>>>>>>>>>> From: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For people on the west coast of America, the 3rd installment
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> of "The Human Spark" is on at 8PM Pacific time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you're
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> up to on Facebook.
>>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-
>>>>>>>>> in-action/social-network-
>>>>>>>>> basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> xm:SI_SB_2:092009
>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Windows Live Hotmail: Your friends can get your Facebook
>>>>>>>> updates, right from Hotmail(r).
>>>>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/middleeast/windows/windowslive/see-it-
>>>>>>>> in-action/social-network-
>>>>>>>> basics.aspx?ocid=PID23461::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-xm:SI_SB_4:092009
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> xmca mailing list
>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> xmca mailing list
>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> xmca mailing list
> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>
_______________________________________________
xmca mailing list
xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca