Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?

[Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com>]

Sorry Mike - that link is to the original video of the PBS show that "sparked" this discussion. Blainey's book is at:

http://www.amazon.com/Triumph-Nomads-History-Aboriginal-Australia/dp/0879510846

Phil 
On Friday, January 29, 2010, at 11:39AM, "mike cole" <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>Oh!! Blainey's historical account is a video, Phil! Not a book?
>mike
>
>On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 3:16 AM, Phil Chappell <philchappell@mac.com> wrote:
>
>> That's an interesting angle, Steve. When reading Blainey's historical
>> accounts (more recent than your 7-digit past) of the social organisation of
>> nomadic life for Australian Aboriginals, I found several illuminating
>> vignettes of human activity that could easily be substituted for the
>> original Leontievinian collective hunt, with the use of mimicry, gesture,
>> body movement ...
>>
>> but I just noticed that I joined in a discussion (which I haven't been
>> following) of some recent media that I didn't see, so I might pause and take
>> the time to watch the series http://video.pbs.org/video/1378637899/
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On 28/01/2010, at 5:07 PM, Steve Gabosch wrote:
>>
>>  Thanks, Phil.  Happy Australia Day (January 26) :-)) .  Another angle to
>>> think about, emphasized by anthropologists such as Evelyn Reed, is besides
>>> the impressive list of **technological** accomplishments that stone age
>>> humans developed over millions of years, humans over those thousands of
>>> millennia developed a complex array of new kinds of **social** institutions.
>>>  In every social respect, the Neandertals, for example, were not primates -
>>> they were humans.  Were they not?  We live in a world today where the sparks
>>> and flames of barbarian conquest and the tools and symbols of expansion seem
>>> to be greatly valued over such social accomplishments.  Humanity is
>>> **millions** of years old - yes?
>>>
>>> - Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 26, 2010, at 1:53 PM, Phil Chappell wrote:
>>>
>>>  Geoffrey Blainey's 'Triumph of the Nomads - A History of Aboriginal
>>>> Australia' suggests just that, Steve and is also a fascinating read  for
>>>> those interested in learning how humans  conquered their environment through
>>>> creative tool use and ongoing technological developments a long time before
>>>> the 30 k dot on in history.It was the recent colonisation movement that,
>>>> sadly, led to the demise of that superior way of life.
>>>>
>>>> And to think the nation celebrated Australia Day once again with the
>>>> union jack splashed around in all its glory.
>>>>
>>>> Phil
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 27, 2010, at 08:25AM, "Steve Gabosch" <
>>>> stevegabosch@me.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There is little doubt that humans began to set the world aflame when
>>>>> they migrated to all its corners 30K+ years ago, and things have been
>>>>> changing rapidly since, relatively speaking.  Quite the wave of sparks
>>>>> and consequent flames.  And quite the range of "genius" and
>>>>> "stupidity" seems to have accompanied these new powers.  But here is
>>>>> the question:  was 30 kya really the "debut," as the PBS intro says,
>>>>> of human sparking?  Or did it begin much earlier - millions of years
>>>>> earlier?
>>>>>
>>>>> - Steve
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 26, 2010, at 4:56 AM, David H Kirshner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>  Steve,
>>>>>> I didn't see much of the series, but one part I did see had to do with
>>>>>> stone tool-making of a hominid cousin--I think Neanderthal. The
>>>>>> comment
>>>>>> was that over thousands of years the technology of making this stone
>>>>>> tool did not progress an iota. So the fact of (somehow ???) inventing
>>>>>> the technology was a spark of genius, the spark didn't quite kindle
>>>>>> into
>>>>>> flame at that phylogenetic period.
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-bounces@weber.ucsd.edu]
>>>>>> On Behalf Of Steve Gabosch
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:30 AM
>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike's comment about "many sparks," and that nicely made PBS show now
>>>>>> available online in at least 2 of the 3 episodes about "The Human
>>>>>> Spark -The Nature of Human Uniqueness", has gotten me thinking about a
>>>>>> line of questioning that has been on my mind for some time, and which
>>>>>> I'll pose in terms of the spark metaphor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> An online introduction to the series suggests that the human spark may
>>>>>> be only 30K years old.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.pbs.org/wnet/humanspark/about/about-the-series-introduction/3
>>>>>> 5/
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "In the first program, Alda witnesses the dazzling (apparent) debut of
>>>>>> the Human Spark in the spectacular 30,000 year-old artwork carved and
>>>>>> painted on the walls of caves in France ..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My question is: didn't the Neandertal peoples also possess some of the
>>>>>> 'human spark'?  And how about our many other human cousins - didn't
>>>>>> humanity begin to 'spark' its way out of the animal world millions of
>>>>>> years ago?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Surely, migrating all over the planet 50K or more years ago, and the
>>>>>> development all the new technologies associated with that period -
>>>>>> sometimes dubbed the "Great Leap Forward" - (barbed hooks, traps, wall
>>>>>> paintings, etc. etc. etc.) - involved a new and dramatic wave of
>>>>>> sparks.  And yes, from available evidence, modern humans, homo sapiens
>>>>>> sapiens, appear to be no more than about 200K years old (all dating
>>>>>> mentioned here is very rough, of course).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But what about other human (humanoid?) accomplishments - durable
>>>>>> production tools such as stone axes, fire, and so forth?  Those were
>>>>>> results and causes of human sparks, too - yes?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> - Steve
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 22, 2010, at 5:42 PM, mike cole wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Larry---
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Could we start to think in this way: elements of what created homo
>>>>>>> sapiens
>>>>>>> sapiens was not a single spark. it was, under very special
>>>>>>> environmental
>>>>>>> circumstances, perhaps involving also a mutation of some part of the
>>>>>>> genome
>>>>>>> simulataneously, the coordination of many sparks at one time and
>>>>>>> place?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Compression of different humanoid populations in Northern Europe
>>>>>>> during ice age circa 50k years ago give or take several k years?
>>>>>>> mike
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Hi everyone
>>>>>>>> I posted this thought earlier and addressed it to Mabel by accident.
>>>>>>>> I thought I had lost it to the great unknown.
>>>>>>>> So here is my question directed through Mabel's response.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:04 pm
>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>> To: Larry <lpurss@shaw.ca>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi, Larry.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Before saying anything... did you mean to send this note to xmca?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Mabel
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:06:30 -0800
>>>>>>>>> From: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>>> To: liliamabel@hotmail.com
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You are welcome Mabel.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have a question about theoretically trying to connect the dots
>>>>>>>>> around a theme of  "theory of mind" referred to in the
>>>>>>>>> Human Spark and the notions of development.
>>>>>>>>> The show pointed out that chimps have awareness of their own
>>>>>>>>> perspective and may have limited capacity to "understand"
>>>>>>>>> anothers intentionality. However humans have the "capacity" or
>>>>>>>>> "potential" to hold up to 5 levels or perspectives of
>>>>>>>>> intentionality of mind.
>>>>>>>>> From a developmental perspective of "emergence" the theme that
>>>>>>>>> this seems to point to being able to hold multiple perspectives
>>>>>>>>> at the same time in "tension".
>>>>>>>>> Lave's notion of development as being able to take different
>>>>>>>>> "positions" (the structured term is "roles") may be an aspect of
>>>>>>>>> this emergence.
>>>>>>>>> Piaget's notion of de-centering may be pointing to a similar
>>>>>>>>> capacity.
>>>>>>>>> The development of the capacity to "reflect" or RE-cognize may
>>>>>>>>> also be pointing in the same area.
>>>>>>>>> Bhaktin's notion of multivoicedness may be another perspective.
>>>>>>>>> G.H.Mead's and W. James social self  also seem to point to this.
>>>>>>>>> Peirce's notion of "fallibility" or holding the tension of
>>>>>>>>> "uncertainty" may also be implicated.
>>>>>>>>> Do  others on CHAT see a biological component to this
>>>>>>>>> capacity or the alternative is that our cultures are in such
>>>>>>>>> tension with the modern forms of communication that out of this
>>>>>>>>> cultural tension notions such as the above are being constructed
>>>>>>>>> to contain and give meaning to the tension.
>>>>>>>>> What do others think?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>>> I was curious how others on CHAT
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>>> From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:12 pm
>>>>>>>>> Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>>> To: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Larry,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for the reminder! I saw the other two: very good.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Mabel
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>  Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:19:56 -0800
>>>>>>>>>>> From: lpurss@shaw.ca
>>>>>>>>>>> To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>> Subject: [xmca] Human spark TV show
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For people on the west coast of America, the 3rd installment
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> of "The Human Spark" is on at 8PM Pacific time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Larry
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> xmca mailing list
>>>>>>>>>>> xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>>>>> http://dss.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xmca
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
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