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Re: [xmca] Human spark TV show: when did the sparks begin?

Mike's comment about "many sparks," and that nicely made PBS show now available online in at least 2 of the 3 episodes about "The Human Spark -The Nature of Human Uniqueness", has gotten me thinking about a line of questioning that has been on my mind for some time, and which I'll pose in terms of the spark metaphor.
An online introduction to the series suggests that the human spark may be only 30K years old. 

from:  http://www.pbs.org/wnet/humanspark/about/about-the-series-introduction/35/
"In the first program, Alda witnesses the dazzling (apparent) debut of the Human Spark in the spectacular 30,000 year-old artwork carved and painted on the walls of caves in France ..."
My question is: didn't the Neandertal peoples also possess some of the 'human spark'? And how about our many other human cousins - didn't humanity begin to 'spark' its way out of the animal world millions of years ago?
Surely, migrating all over the planet 50K or more years ago, and the development all the new technologies associated with that period - sometimes dubbed the "Great Leap Forward" - (barbed hooks, traps, wall paintings, etc. etc. etc.) - involved a new and dramatic wave of sparks. And yes, from available evidence, modern humans, homo sapiens sapiens, appear to be no more than about 200K years old (all dating mentioned here is very rough, of course).
But what about other human (humanoid?) accomplishments - durable production tools such as stone axes, fire, and so forth? Those were results and causes of human sparks, too - yes? 

- Steve








On Jan 22, 2010, at 5:42 PM, mike cole wrote:


Larry---
Could we start to think in this way: elements of what created homo sapiens sapiens was not a single spark. it was, under very special environmental circumstances, perhaps involving also a mutation of some part of the genome simulataneously, the coordination of many sparks at one time and place? 

Compression of different humanoid populations in Northern Europe
during ice age circa 50k years ago give or take several k years?
mike

On Thu, Jan 21, 2010 at 7:05 PM, Larry Purss <lpurss@shaw.ca> wrote:


Hi everyone
I posted this thought earlier and addressed it to Mabel by accident.
I thought I had lost it to the great unknown.
So here is my question directed through Mabel's response.

----- Original Message -----
From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 2:04 pm
Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
To: Larry <lpurss@shaw.ca>



Hi, Larry.



Before saying anything... did you mean to send this note to xmca?



Mabel












Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:06:30 -0800
From: lpurss@shaw.ca
Subject: Re: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
To: liliamabel@hotmail.com




You are welcome Mabel.

I have a question about theoretically trying to connect the dots
around a theme of  "theory of mind" referred to in the
Human Spark and the notions of development.
The show pointed out that chimps have awareness of their own
perspective and may have limited capacity to "understand"
anothers intentionality. However humans have the "capacity" or
"potential" to hold up to 5 levels or perspectives of
intentionality of mind.
From a developmental perspective of "emergence" the theme that
this seems to point to being able to hold multiple perspectives
at the same time in "tension".
Lave's notion of development as being able to take different
"positions" (the structured term is "roles") may be an aspect of
this emergence.
Piaget's notion of de-centering may be pointing to a similar capacity. 
The development of the capacity to "reflect" or RE-cognize may
also be pointing in the same area.
Bhaktin's notion of multivoicedness may be another perspective.
G.H.Mead's and W. James social self  also seem to point to this.
Peirce's notion of "fallibility" or holding the tension of
"uncertainty" may also be implicated.
Do  others on CHAT see a biological component to this
capacity or the alternative is that our cultures are in such
tension with the modern forms of communication that out of this
cultural tension notions such as the above are being constructed
to contain and give meaning to the tension.
What do others think?

Larry
I was curious how others on CHAT

----- Original Message -----
From: Mabel Encinas <liliamabel@hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:12 pm
Subject: RE: [xmca] Human spark TV show
To: lpurss@shaw.ca



Larry,

Thank you for the reminder! I saw the other two: very good.


Mabel











Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:19:56 -0800
From: lpurss@shaw.ca
To: xmca@weber.ucsd.edu
Subject: [xmca] Human spark TV show

For people on the west coast of America, the 3rd installment

of "The Human Spark" is on at 8PM Pacific time.


Larry
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