Re: straw man?
Francoise Herrmann (fherrmann who-is-at igc.apc.org)
Thu, 25 Apr 1996 10:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
> > > Pain is inevitable. Cruelty is not.
> > >
> > >
> > I refuse to sign on that one:
> >
> >"Pain is "evitable" like cruelty. They are two sides of the same coin
> >called "sado-masochism", in my view.
>
> Hi, Francoise & all,
> The difference between pain & cruelty is one of agency, it
> seems to me. And whereas felt pain may be transformed by the subject into
> narratives, theories, products, different self/world relations, the
> subject is powerless to do anything about felt cruelty (suffering
> that one feels as a result of cruelty can be transformed only
> when one is out of cruelty's reach). Same with sadism & masochism, ugly
> words that mask the complexity of experience in my view. Instead of
> condemning other people for how they get their pleasure, or condemning
> murky motivations behind deeds we see as hurtful, it is more ethically
> compelling to ask how knowledgeable we are about the effect
> we have on others, how we imagine decency, and what we do to modulate
> our relations with the world in order to allow for mutual learning/
> humanizing of one another. I'd have more respect & trust in a
> conscientious sado-masochist pair than in a self-ignorant pair of
> do-gooders. Though I suppose I would want to stay furthest away from
> self-ignorant sadists & masochists. And from anyone who can not
> or wants not to imagine decency.
>
> - Judy
>
>
>
>
>
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Hi Judy, Hi everyone, I must admit that after reading your message I was
puzzled because I never put any judments in my refusal of pain and
cruelty. I refuse pain and cruelty which I see as sad-masochism because
in my mind pain and cruelty are very separate from pleasure and joy. That
these experiential constructs are fused in ways of being is another
set of isssues that are fine with me. That these are decent ways of being
(or indecent) again never struck my mind! Am I understanding what you
are saying?
I also wanted to quote Jaoo "While we get up the contradictions...enlighten
the emchanisms used to oppress, and share our discoveries with syndiates..
we walk in the direction of one society, more democratic, I hope" but for
very different reasons than you do in answer to Robin's questions
about inevitable perceptions and acts of cruelty. Again, in my view
cruelty is never justifiable or escusable. When it is perceived,
then responsible and caring actionbehooves us to change that situation.
And as Jaoo was saying with every time that one says the horror, enlightens
the mechanisms, the ideal is bcoming material and it is one more step
in the direction of change. In refusing pain and cruelty I am neither
denying nor suppressing it (Eva), I am saying "no" because to me that is
the only way that anything will ever change.
Francoise
Francoise Herrmann
fherrmann who-is-at igc.org
PS. Hugs to Jay.