Hello Jay, Mark and other xmca-ers--
Jay wrote yesterday,
"So intelligent objection to the IRE means objection to
consequences of the _form itself_, rather than to some of its
uses or abuses. My principal objection in _Talking Science_ was
that the form tends to reduce the amount and semantic-discursive
complexity (not to mention genre diversity) of students' talking
science (i.e. use of the scientific register). In effect it
minimizes the amount of practice they get speaking this new
language. There are reams of boring studies which show the
statistical correlation of the IRE form with the high ratio of
teacher talk to (aggregate) student talk in lessons. Student
responses in the IRE pattern are often single words or phrases
and generally sub-clausal. In effect they are 'over-scaffolded'
and the scaffolding is never supportively withdrawn; the ZPD
expands enormously with the IRE, but it is not clear that
individual capacity ever recapitulates joint capacity under these
conditions."
I agree with many points that Jay made. However, my general concern is =
that I think that discourse analysis at the level of the IRE sequence =
seems not to allow to address the objections that Jay raised. I agree =
that the IRE discursive sequence is suspiciously useful for unilateral =
guidance ("adult-run guidance" in Rogoff-Matusov-White terms). But the =
IRE sequence can be used not only in different functions, as I tried to =
exemplify in my previous message, but also in different practices. For =
example, a detective often uses it during an interrogation of a suspect. =
Both in traditional schooling and criminal justice system the IRE =
sequence can be dominant discursive pattern but they serve different =
practices and different goals. My point is that even within the same =
practice (e.g., schooling), the IRE can serve different philosophies of =
this practice (although, honestly, I am not sure that I can make an =
example of two different philosophies of practice for which the IRE =
sequence is the dominant discursive pattern).
Jay wrote, "I believe that hidden dialogic manipulation of students'
reasoning (as in expert use of IRE, or Socrates and Meno) tends
to repress critical stances to socially accepted views." I think that =
the IRE does
not inherently promote unilateralism or manipulation.
Putting in another form of expression, I'd say that if someone just =
counts the IRE
sequence in a classroom discourse, the great frequency of the counted =
IRE by itself would not convince me that this was a traditional =
classroom. I need to know meaning of the IRE, what kind of =
participation it open and close for the participants, what the =
participants tried to achieve with the IRE, and so. These questions =
seem to lead a researcher beyond discourse analysis at the level of =
verbal sequences. I suggest that what I call "philosophy of practice" =
is an appropriate unit of analysis for the purpose of characterizing of =
a specific practice with a specific participants.
Eugene Matusov
UC Santa Cruz
PS Jay, thank you for the reference of Gordon's paper. Can you send =
info about your book "Talking science," please? I enjoyed reading your =
book "Textual politics." I wish someone :-) provides a review of these =
books in MCA and on the net.
PSS. I agree with Jay's analysis of the IRIRE sequence mentioned by Eva. =
It involves an implicit couple of two IREs.=20
PSSS. My reading of Bakhtin is that carnival is not an opposition to =
authoritarism and ritualization but it is a complimentary to it. The =
stronger authoritarian or totalitarian nature of a political regime, the =
stronger are carnivals in that society (and visa versa). I found =
certain truth in that in history of Russia (the oral culture of jokes =
flourished under the totalitarian Communist regime in the USSR and I've =
heard that it is dying now).
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