[Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild life system?

Tue Jan 29 06:41:45 PST 2019

There was a general recognition in the social sciences (including philosophy) some time ago that it is crucial to recognize the existence and importance of “intersubjective” phenomena.  Language, for example, is not subjective, it is intersubjective. As Andy notes, subjectivity and even objectivity (think Latour’s analysis of science in Laboratory Life) arise from and are dependent upon intersubjective phenomena.

Martin

> On Jan 29, 2019, at 12:15 AM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
> 
> When you get the electric chair for murdering someone that is not a linguistic construct.
> andy
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm <http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm>
> On 29/01/2019 2:49 pm, Adam Poole (16517826) wrote:
>> Perhaps it may be more appropriate to use the term 'quasi-objective form', as the medium through which concepts like inequality and injustice are made objective, language, is itself inherently subjective. For example, justice can be given objective form in law, but the law itself is comprised of language, customs, traditions, beliefs, etc. The manifestation of an objective form is not universal, but will differ depending on cultural context. Hence quasi-objective. Concepts like inequality are given objective form, but it doesn't mean that they are objective in nature, due to the mediating role of language. 
>> 
>> Adam
>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>
>> Sent: 29 January 2019 08:16:35
>> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Do we find Inequalities in wild life system?
>>  
>> Mmm, "subjective" is a polysemous word, Huw. It is not a matter of precision but of relativity. "Inequality" is a famously contested concept, as is "injustice," but its contestation is necessarily in a social context and with social content. Justice and equality are given objective form in law and social policy in definite, really-existing states or organisations challenging for state power, not the opinion of individuals.
>> andy
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm <http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm>
>> On 29/01/2019 1:50 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>> It isn't "subjective", Andy. Rather it is limited to a certain construal. One can be quite precise and objective about that construal.
>>> 
>>> Huw
>>> 
>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 14:14, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>> I can't agree that with your suggestion, Huw, that inequality (in the meaning with which Harshad used it) is something subjective, in the eye of the beholder. Such a view would be very pernicious politically. The fact is that states have emerged and developed over many centuries so as to makes objective certain concepts of justice, among which are various qualified and nuances notions of equality. This is not  figment of my imagination.
>>> andy
>>> Andy Blunden
>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm <http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm>
>>> On 29/01/2019 12:59 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>>> We find "wild life" systems that are imbalanced and subject to radical changes.
>>>> 
>>>> Inequality is a perceptual/cognitive construct and predicated on an ontological scope. We find the condition of inequality (or comparison) in our thinking and behaviour. Every living thing "finds" inequalities. We do not find inequality, we find the awareness of inequality.
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 08:17, James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Should you find inequality within a wildlife system, that must be a political, ideological precept!
>>>> 
>>>> James
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 07:56, James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com <mailto:jamesma320@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>> Not only is it meaningless but also preposterous. To maintain that all members of the same species are equal, as Anne Moir and David Jessel put it, is to "build a society based on a biological and scientific lie".
>>>> James
>>>> PS: I'm apolitical - anything political, ideological just doesn't speak to me!
>>>> _______________________________________________________
>>>> James Ma  Independent Scholar https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>   
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, 28 Jan 2019 at 05:27, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>>> Harshad,
>>>> "Inequality" is a meaningless concept when referred to Nature. Likewise "Injustice." 
>>>> Justice and equality are relevant only to the extent that the subjects are living in an 'artificial' world, out of Nature. Natural disasters and the plenitude of Nature have these dimensions only to the extent they are imposed on or made available to different classes of people by the social system. 
>>>> Hope that helps.
>>>> Andy
>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm <http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm>
>>>> On 28/01/2019 4:00 pm, Harshad Dave wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I am working on one article. I want to know your views on following query.
>>>>> 
>>>>> "Do we find Inequalities exists in wild life system?"
>>>>> 
>>>>> Your views will help me in my work.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Harshad Dave
>>>>> Email: hhdave15@gmail.com <mailto:hhdave15@gmail.com>
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
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